<p>This is for a friend whose son was given a very strong indication of a 90%- 100% athletic scholarship should he choose Rice. He attends a small public high school and has an ACT of 28 and weighted GPA of 4.1 and wants to pursue engineering. His particular sport, track, involves year round dedication and I am concerned engineering at Rice or similar schools with those stats AND keeping up with demanding athletics might be more than this student can handle. He has also received inquiries from Harvard, Yale and Duke for his athletics. Opinions??? His family is enamored with the prestige of the Ivies and is not familiar with how wonderful Rice is. I am convinced Rice would offer a smaller, more collaborative atmosphere than the other schools. Opinions or suggestions anyone? I don't know what kind of engineering he is interested in. I also submitted this on the Rice forum.</p>
<p>My student is a scholar athlete and a STEM major…
it is very very time consuming…
P sets can take 20 hrs a piece…
Practices (on your owns), captain called, and official take MANY hours a week.</p>
<p>however the team is a great outlet for social activity and the sport is very important to K1 that being without it is unthinkable.</p>
<p>Consider the parameters of the scholarship…what is the cut off?
Is it declining or a total loss if the GPA dips?
And will being without the scholarship mean having to leave the school?</p>
<p>My son is an Ivy Engineering baseball player. It is very difficult. It takes an extremely self-motivated and disciplined kid to pull it off IMHO. I “tip my cap” to fogfog’s D or any athlete at any level that can do it. I’d hire those kids in a nanosecond.</p>
<p>The type of engineering is critical. Also critical will be the amount of team travel, and when does the team travel. I’d strongly urge your friend to look at Rice’s track schedule to see how many meets and how much travel. I believe Rice is in Conference USA which is significant travel. I would then look at the Ivy track schedule. Your friend may come to the same conclusion we did…you have to choose which is most important. My son realized that playing 56 baseball games (traditional D1) and being an engineering major was next to impossible for him. Playing 42 baseball games (D1 - Ivy) with a little mid-week travel as an engineering major was still difficult but manageable. </p>
<p>At the very least, I would follow up with the other schools you mentioned (Harvard, Yale and Duke) to see what level of financial aid is possible, and the cost of attendence. That’s not a terrible list to choose from. ;-)</p>
<p>First, they need to get a formal offer before they commit, in dollars. Getting a full-ride for track is not very common. Second, with a 28 on the ACT, how likely is it he will get into an Ivy, even as a recruited athlete? What is their income level? Will they be able to afford an Ivy. There are no scholarships there. Can they afford to pay for Rice should he not be able to continue with engineering and track. I also question the ability to complete an engineering program with only a 28 on the ACT, which may be a good thing financially as a different major may allow him more time for track, thus keeping his scholarship.</p>
<p>I think they first need to pin down exactly what that 90-100% scholarship means. Is he getting 100% of the 1/4 scholarship that he may be able to get or is it really a full ride?</p>
<p>I agree fogfog and he comes from a small and not particularly challenging high school. He just happens to be a very gifted athlete and he received “mail questionnaires” according to his mom from Yale and Harvard. I suspect those questionnaires will request all his grades and scores. This is a very preliminary stage. The offer from Rice may be very sincere as they have personally seen this kid perform and he is already at collegiate level in terms of ability and has even competed against D1 athletes and bested them.</p>
<p>FWIW, a great (state champ) track kid from the HS school where my H teaches and coaches received inquiries from Harvard and the Naval Academy, among others. His SAT score was <1,000 (all three parts). Of course, these schools had no idea what his scores were and would certainly not be able to offer admission. Point is, the schools cast a wide net and athletes need to research and understand where they will be admissable and how much, if at all, athletic ability will help them.</p>
<p>Please caution your friend not to read too much into receiving a form letter and a request to fill out a questionare. We were told that they routinely send mail to all athletes who make the national elite times/marks on Athletic.net and milesplit. My son got what his coach affectionately called a Royal Flush (a form letter from every Ivy) but when it came time to actually talk to coaches, several said they weren’t in need of someone for his event, they just send the letters out in case. </p>
<p>However, so they know where things stand, if the Rice offer is serious, have her ask if the % the coach is discussing is % of tuition or % of total cost of attendance. My experience was that coaches like to throw out a big % number to catch your attention but it doesn’t always mean what you would like to mean.</p>
<p>A 28 on the ACT does not make an athlete unrecruitable in the Ivy League. It was reported that one of Princeton’s basketball players scored a 28, and these scores are rarely reported, because the coaches and school administrators can’t make them public.</p>
<p>If his SAT Subject test scores are consistent with his ACT score, and his unweighted GPA is about 3.6 (they don’t use weighted GPA’s), he would have an Academic Index of 190, which puts him on the low side, but certainly above the minimum AI of 176. The coach would have to really want him, and the school would have to be giving some of their low AI recruits to track.</p>
<p>A top HS basketball recruit can possibly get into H or P with that score - actually even a couple points lower isn’t completely out of the question, but we’re talking about 1-2 kids max in the whole class. They’ll have to balance that low recruit to keep the overall athletic AI with the 1 standard deviation. </p>
<p>But in track or any other sport at HP - a 28 won’t cut it.</p>
<p>It really all depends on the caliber of the athlete and if multiple Ivy’s are competing for that athlete to be on their roster. A 28 ACT with a high GPA from a known academic hs is very recruitable. Trust me on this, my DD is a sophomore at an Ivy and has a cumulative GPA of 3.5. And we are VERY proud of her academic and athletic accomplishments. So not impossible but probably not probable.</p>
<p>^ It’s also going to vary a bit within the Ivy League This is from a NYT article:</p>
<p>“In a response to a commissioned report on Brown athletics issued this year, the university’s president, Ruth J. Simmons, said that for the four most recent admissions classes throughout the league, Brown had seven sports with average A.I.’s under 200; Dartmouth and Penn had 5; Columbia 3; Yale 1; and Harvard and Princeton none.”</p>
<p>So a 28 at H and P really won’t fly except a bball or possibly low-low band football
H has just started taking a little heat from other Ivy ADs for prioritizing basketball and taking players they may not have taken 5 years ago. They’re still off the AI floor, but other recruits have to be higher to compensate</p>
<p>Look at the majors listed for the juniors and seniors at the schools. If no engineering majors are to be found amongst the track athletes at Rice - a powerhouse engineering school where a significant number of students are engineering majors - there is a reason.</p>
<p>At S’s school, many began as STEM majors; none kept their majors.</p>
<p>I would also add that even without athletics, majors change as some interests diminish and new interests emerge.</p>
<p>The student athlete is nationally ranked in top 5 for his events, he will represent the U.S. in Worlds in the Ukraine this summer and he was contacted through his coach who has previously supplied top athletes to schools. Maybe he will have better luck with the SAT?? I am just concerned his parents do not understand how many thousands of athletes are sent form questionnaires from even the Ivys and a sure deal from a top 20 school might be the way to go.</p>
<p>He has to contact Ivy coaches, if he is an International level athlete they will talk to him. They will ask for his transcript, current and future courses and grades and all test results and they will either continue recruiting or drop him at this point. They may give him guidance what test scores/grades they will need to see to get him in. They may invite him for UV to evalute his personality. There is still time to improve test results and even ACT 28 is recruitable to all Ivys for many sports and not just bball/fball. Do not rely on this board - listen to the coach.</p>
<p>That is true. With the exception of the 176 AI floor - there are few hard and fast rules, just varying degrees of probability. A true world-class athlete may find some academic leeway in any sport.</p>
<p>saismon – tough balance trying to help the parents see the total picture but you seem to grasp the situation. They may have their rose colored glasses on and are just getting flattered by the attention their son is receiving. It is real easy to have that happen. FYI- while he may want to represent the US in the Ukraine this summer the qualifying meet hasn’t even been held yet, it won’t take place until end of June and sometimes a season doesn’t always go as planned… So definitely keep advising them that until an offer is in writing, it is not an offer, and every athlete on the “list” is getting the same letters from the Ivy’s. Better to keep all doors open regardless of his planned major.</p>
<p>On another note - we do personally know a track athlete, engineering graduate from Rice. He was a brilliant student in HS, high ranking athlete and readily states that he worked his butt off in Rice to graduate (including taking classes over the summer), so I am not sure being a succesful student-athlete is any easier there than at an Ivy, it is going to be a difficult balance no matter where he goes.</p>
<p>Thanks so much,Ontrack. Great points for me to mention to the athlete and parents. The boys numbers do qualify him to try out for the World team (USA). Apparently I misunderstood.</p>