Transfer? A complicated situation!

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hi,
I’m a current sophomore at medium-sized Western university, working toward s BSW and a BA (in psychology) with a minor in life sciences. I’m here on an almost-full ride, so my parents “only” pay about $5,000-$6,000 a year for room and board, tuition, fess, and Greek dues (their decision to pay the latter), For the most part, I’m really happy here so far. I’m pretty heavily involved in a few organizations (Greek life, community service, activism, and academic honors) and hold a couple of leadership positions; additionally, I’m a TA for a freshman class, “work” for free in a biomedical research lab with a great mentor who has no qualms about letting me get involved in his research and have an unpaid internship in a PT clinic in an effort to get medical SW experience, as I’m trying to decide between medical and mental health social work (I currently intend to get an MSW after graduation. I have plenty of friends, including a group of sorority sisters who I adore. With a few notable exceptions (see below), most of my classes have been good to excellent. Obviously, I’m really trying to take advantage of my time here and my scholarship. However, I’m beginning to wonder if a transfer might be a good strategic move for a couple of reasons.</p>

<p>There are two academic reasons for this. First is the fact that I have always wanted to live in a specific state, not one of the contagious forty-eight. Everything about this state has held a lot of allure for me, from the weather to the cultural influences to the actual physical location. My parents are planning to go with me to visit said state this summer, and I’m particularly jumping out of my skin with excitement. Applying for colleges the first time around, I applied somewhat below my means (top 2%, 99th percentile ACT, numerous leadership positions, 4.0 UW) in search of good merit money and ended up with seven offers, seriously considering five that ranged from $5,000 to $25,000 per year, throwing out two that gave what I viewed as insufficient merit money.</p>

<p>None of the schools, however, were in desired state X. Why? Because this state’s flagship (and pretty much only) university doesn’t give out much in the way of scholarships to OOS students and has a generally poor national reputation, I decided at wouldn’t be feasible to apply. However, I was always planning to go grad. school in this state, as social work is a field where going to grad. school where you want to practice can be a HUGE help, and state X has some pretty unique population/social issues. However, most MSW programs are small, and my grades so far are only okay, not great, and nothing like my high school grades (3.67 currently, how this semester will turn out is anyone’s guess). This problem is compounded by the fact that the MSW program at U of State X has a special provision that automatically admits undergraduate social work students from their program into the advanced standing program where BSW holders can complete an MSW in one year, thus saving a lot of time and money (around $25,000). This worries me because MSW programs have a pretty small cohort in general, and this just makes admission for outside students that much more competitive. Thus, I’m wondering if it would be to my advantage to transfer to U of State X and try to take advantage of this program.</p>

<p>Secondly, during high school, I was very, very involved in studying a non-Western language, earning state-level recognition and receiving extraordinary instruction. I came to college with the intent to double major or at least minor in said language. However, I was nothing but disappointed in this university’s program, from the content of instruction, to the quality of the professors, to the pedagogy employed (the emphasis was on straight repetition and pretty handwriting as opposed to functional analysis and daily communication), to the department politics. Despite my best attempts to work within the program, after a semester, I realized that I was spending all my time dealing with department drama and learning pretty much nothing, and thus stopped taking classes in said language. However, I miss this language horribly—I spent years being surrounded by it for hours a day and could functional read, analyze, and write essays on authentic pieces written for native speakers. I’m beyond the level of any of the “:Teach Yourself” books but still need guidance and feedback to improve my skills. U of State X has a program in said language, and I’d jump at the opportunity to take classes in it again.</p>

<p>The thing is, U of State X would end up costing me around $22,00 more per year than my current school! Because I chose a cheaper school, my parents have agreed to pay out of pocket for my undergraduate work at this university, essentially leaving me with enough money to cover the one year of graduate school I would need to get an MSW　from an Advanced Standing program and graduate from grad. school debt-free, which is something I’m really grateful for, especially as social work isn’t the world’s highest paying profession. If I went to U of State X, I might end up with some graduate school debt, and I don’t know if I’m really willing to throw away my nearly free education here so easily. </p>

<p>Transferring would mean giving up my sorority (U of State X doesn’t have a Greek system), my leadership positions, my research work and internships, my (admittedly useless) second major and minor (here we pay by a “flat spot,” at U of State X, payment is actually credit by credit), my friends, my near “full-ride” and the connections I’ve made here. However, transferring would also give me access to this amazing admissions program, a chance to live in the state of my dreams, and a chance to study my language again.</p>

<p>Any advice?</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

2

<p>Wow. That's one... tough situation. I'm guessing that you're in your sophomore year given what you've accomplished. I am also a transfer (still hard to believe that I didn't spend my first year elsewhere!) who ended up having a lot going on for her by the mid-spring semester that the decision to transfer actually was an agonizing process.</p>

<p>I think in some ways our reasonings for transfer does match up a bit. I transferred out for academic reasons- the need to go into a better quality History department as long the school also has similar quality or better for Judaic Studies. To really be sure that I loved history enough that I'd be willing to transfer out, I wait until the spring semester to take a course with my history advisor while playing with different departments throughout the freshman year. To tell you the truth, I have not honestly regretted switching since even though there were other aspects that I regretted (missing the all-women's atmosphere, not being with my friends). I have found greater opportunities to pursue my major and the professors here are nothing but amazing. In fact, when I mentioned what I was majoring at in this school to a museum staff person while on my internship, she commented that it's one of the top 10 undergrad history programs in the country. Now I am in process of applying to graduate school for History PhD with much confidence.</p>

<p>I think that if you really want all of this and be willing to sacrifice leadership positions and Greek life that you'll never really be able to get (I haven't gotten whole lot of leadership experience here because of the timing of my entry and study abroad), then apply for transfer. I mean, I think my case was unique in a sense because I was always very passionate about history, nearly all of my life, and somehow knew that I wanted to do graduate work, not go to law school like a lot of history majors. Also I'm very competitive in nature that professors see my potential and want to work with me to ensure my success in their courses.</p>

<p>So think hard. By transferring, you'll essentially be giving up your college life in order to begin prepping for grad schools one or two years earlier rather than in your last year of undergraduate like most people. Also, the most difficult and hidden problem of transferring is convincing professors to write you a stellar letter of recommendation. It sounds like you have amazing relationships with the professors at your current school that one of the two things should happen: 1) They'll be in shock and refuse to write you a letter until they hear very concrete reasons for leaving so they don't feel that they've been duped or 2) Look at your current experiences with them as an opportunity to create an amazing package for MSW admissions because by the time you apply, you'll have established a deep relationship with them and have a long resume of experiences that shows commitment. Also, is that program at Said School absolutely guarantee for MSW for its own students? Otherwise, you could be setting up yourself for a major disappointment.</p>

<p>I did have a hard time with two of my professors (in Russian, my major if I had stayed) because they wanted me to stay and work with them. I asked two other professors- one was my First Year Seminar prof who had an experience with transferring because of his own child and another was my advisor who heard my reasons and actually told me that I should be in a better organized and quality history program and was happy to write away.</p>

<p>Seriously, my life has taken such a turn that I cannot imagine where I'd be now if I had stayed my school. I probably won't even be pursuing my PhD!</p>

3

<p>Thanks for the reply!</p>

<p>Yep, I'm a current sophomore here and looking to transfer for next fall. Actually, I could still transfer for Spring 2008 (deadline is 11/1), but that seems like too much of a rush! One thing that nice about this particular situation is that I'm assured admission to U of State X as long as I have a 2.0 or above and no letters of recommendation are needed-- in fact, the application doesn't even have a place for ECs or essays!</p>

<p>Admission is not, however. assured to the BSW program. As with my school, applicants must apply after completing certain BSW courses. Application is not usually outragerously competitive, however, and most applicants get in most years, but there is a possible risk there. The guranteed advanced standing program requires a 3.5 in upperdivision SW classes (what I would need to get into most AS MSW programs anyway) and A's in practice courses.</p>

<p>I'm really caught between wanting to stay here and going after the opprotunities offered at U of State X, though I am currently submitting my application for transfer.</p>

4

<p>My son, also a full merit scholar at a big U, decided to transfer to a smaller, more elite U his sophomore year for a number of reasons, mostly academic. We insisted that he take a leave of absence, in order to preserve his scholarship, instead of officially transfering out of big U, just in case he did not like it at new U or changed his mind for some reason. It's a good thing we did, because after getting there, he realized in short order that he had made a mistake [there are too many factors to discuss here why the transfer didn't work, but let's just say some programs and professors, weren't what he had expected or hoped it would be like, he missed his friends, etc. etc] so he is now in the process of making arrangements to return to Big U in the Spring semester. My advice?- Do anything you can to take a leave of absence instead of officially transfering out, if you can preserve your scholarship, and "try out" your dream school during your leave. Your "dream" school may, or may not be all that you hope for, and if it's not, you would have the chance to return and pick up where you left off. Your current U would probably not want to lose you, so perhaps you could negotiate with them, if they don't currenty have a leave of absence policy for merit scholars.</p>

5

<p>Have you thought about the feasibility of finishing your degrees (bachelors and masters) before moving to the dream state? It may work in your favor for future flexibility to have your degrees from the academically better school, in case the dream state doesn't meet your expectations. I'm happy to hear you plan a visit with your parents before making the decision. Also, any "useless" major is actually useful in getting an education, college is not only about obtaining marketable job skills. You may be better off using this stage in your life to obtain the best education, there will be plenty of years to work where you choose to live whereas you may regret giving up all the benefits you currently have. In your rush to relocate you may be forgetting it can be possible to have the "best of both worlds", the present education and the future location.</p>

6

<p>^
I've considered that, but the thing with MSW programs is that a lot of job opprotunities come out of MSW practicums and other connections, so it's really, really beneficial to go to school in the area you want to practice in. This is even more enhanced by the fact this state has a very unique demographic that you really couldn't work in other areas.</p>

7

<p>Can you take summer classes at this college? That would demonstrate interest. Would their MSW program waive some required classes from your current UG program? Do you know what the job market is for MSWs in that state?</p>

<p>sorry, no advice, just Qs</p>

8

<p>Have you ever visited the state before? My advice is to visit the state before making a decision about transferring there. A state that seems like the dream place for you to live when you see it on TV or in the movies may be quite different in reality.</p>

<p>And if you do like the state as much as you expect to, you really may wish to go to grad school there and plan to live there permanently. </p>

<p>While one does have to get a new license if one moves to a new state as a social worker, there still seems to be a shortage of social workers everywhere, and I know social workers who have made several moves to new states and still have been able to easily get jobs as well as new licensure.</p>

9

<p>Regardless of everything else, the quality of your life after graduation will be dramatically better if you do not have large education debts. Think very hard about this. Lorelei</p>

10

<p>Since the state you're talking about is not one of the continguous 48, I'm pretty sure it's the one a lot of people consider "paradise". Be very careful - both the state and it's university have pros and cons. The university especially - a fair number of students from my area go there, and some return very disappointed. It's a large, mostly commuter school, so it's not that easy to meet people and may not have the array of activities that you are used to. Also check out how well (or poorly) people from different cultural backgrounds relate; I've heard that at this school there is a strong tendency for racial groups to remain separate. Finally the grass is always greener on the other side. While this state has some obvious things going for it, it also has some disadvantages. After a while it becomes very small, yet it's not very easy to go someplace else. It's also very expensive. I'd suggest you talk to as many people as you can who have gone to school and also who have lived/currently live there, so you get a better feel for what being a permanent resident is like versus just vacationing there. Good luck!</p>

11

<p>Tough call. As I read the first half of your post, I was really thinking transfer was not the greatest idea. When I got to the part about possibly increasing your chances of admission to the MSW program by transferring now, I began to see your dilemma.</p>

<p>Since you are already submitting your transfer application, I think the next thing to do is to obtain as much information as possible about your chances of admission to U State X's MSW program if you do <em>not</em> transfer. How many do they accept? What are their credentials compared to yours? What kind of ties, if any, do any of your current U's faculty have with those at U State X? What track record does your current U have with MSW admissions to selective programs? Perhaps most importantly, I would suggest you make contact with that program's faculty/admissions (good idea would be for this to be in conjuncion with NSM's recommended visit to the state; but phone/email combo would be another alternative). Ask <em>them</em> whether they would suggest someone in your position transfer into undergrad in order to enhance your chances.</p>

<p>My take would be that if the situation looks fairly rosy for admission to that program, I would not transfer. Save all the money. Continue to enjoy the great experience you are having. Know that you have solid chances for the MSW admit.</p>

<p>I've got nothing against transfer - I did it and so did my S. But the financial costs to you would be very high. The language thing - eh... you can pursue that in oh-so-many ways in the many many years you have left in life.</p>

<p>Finally, while I understand ticklemepink's concern
[quote]
It sounds like you have amazing relationships with the professors at your current school that one of the two things should happen: 1) They'll be in shock and refuse to write you a letter until they hear very concrete reasons for leaving so they don't feel that they've been duped

[/quote]
because it is a fear many potential transferrees have, this is not likely. Your reasons for wanting to transfer are valid; profs will understand them and they will write you a great rec if that is how they see you (which I'm sure they do :) ).</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
Since the state you're talking about is not one of the continguous 48, I'm pretty sure it's the one a lot of people consider "paradise". Be very careful - both the state and it's university have pros and cons. The university especially - a fair number of students from my area go there, and some return very disappointed. It's a large, mostly commuter school, so it's not that easy to meet people and may not have the array of activities that you are used to. Also check out how well (or poorly) people from different cultural backgrounds relate; I've heard that at this school there is a strong tendency for racial groups to remain separate. Finally the grass is always greener on the other side. While this state has some obvious things going for it, it also has some disadvantages. After a while it becomes very small, yet it's not very easy to go someplace else. It's also very expensive. I'd suggest you talk to as many people as you can who have gone to school and also who have lived/currently live there, so you get a better feel for what being a permanent resident is like versus just vacationing there. Good luck!

[/quote]

Actually, it's the other state--the one most people couldn't be paid enough to live in :) (Same cost issue, though). I am visiting this summer and have lived in similar climates. I know many people from state, too.</p>

<p>I've emailed rhe program abou admission of out of program students and haven't heard back.</p>

13

<p>I ran the numbers and came out with this:</p>

<p>Current U: ~$6,240/year, not counting Greek dues of about $800/year (as I don't consider it my parents' responsibility to pay them, even though I'm grateful that they do). This was about $1500 less my freshman due to outside, non-renewable scholarships.</p>

<p>U of State X: ~$22840/year, estimated at 15 credits each semeser&lt;/p>

<p>Difference: Around $16600/year and likely to increase due to the fact my scholarship rises with tutition at my current U while I would have no such protection at U of State X.</p>

<p>Two year difference: ~33200 (~$31600 if you less sororitory dues, but I'm leaving out a charge at U of State X that I couldn't quite figure out how to calcuate, maybe around any additional $280 or so a year)</p>

<p>I have told funds saved in my name of about $25,000, which would about cover the cost of an AS MSW program, accounting for living expenses, and my parents have expressed a willingness to "fill in the gaps" with post-undergrad work if they can.</p>

<p>I'm not sure how this would be handled financially if I transferred (we wouldn't qualify for need-based aid at either u with our EFC), but I know the extra $33,000 would have to come from somewhere!</p>

<p>I broached the subject brieflly with my father today (he was visiting, bringing up a necessity that could not be shipped due to size), and he strongly encouraged me to stay at Current U, even though State X is also a dream of his (He's just as excited to visit as I am!). In addition to money, he also mentioned that I would be "so far away"--not that I'm that close now, but at least I'm on the "mainland."</p>

<p>However, U of State X's MSW program seems perfectly tailored to what I want to do in the professional world, and the admittance agreement is so tempting</p>

14

<p>Remember to visit the state during its worst, not best season- and for long enough to get tired of the conditions- perhaps a solid month. Also - why are you set on going there???, you can help as many equally deserving people in the lower 48. If they need people you will be accepted at the grad school level and can finish your undergrad college experience without regrets. Rethink your reasons if you feel you are going to be some kind of savior, the real world doesn't work that way. So far it sounds like a childhood wish/ fantasy, especially since there are so many things you like about your current situation. If the new state is where you will be successful careerwise and in other ways it can wait for grad school. If by waiting you don't get accepted you probably are better off elsewhere. If it is meant to be it will happen.</p>

15

<p>Nope, no messiah complex here... I just really, really want to live there. I'm thinking about visiting this winter as well as summer. Living in thos state has been my dream pretty much forever, and it would be crushed if I didn't give it a try.</p>

16

<p>Well, frankly, if you want to become a social worker in Alaska, from what I hear and see here in Washington (the only state connected by ferry--remember, Washington is closer to Alaska (600 miles) than it is to San Francisco (900 miles))--you won't have any trouble. </p>

<p>Have you talked to the admissions dept in Alaska? My BIL has an MSW--and it's my impression (I could be wrong) that MSW programs simply aren't that selective. And a GPA of 3.67 is good for college.</p>

<p>You REALLY don't want to have loans in a field as poorly paid as social work.</p>

17

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<p>I couldn't agree with this statement more. It is great advice!</p>

18

<p>You are happy, successful and comfortable where you are. This is very important.</p>

<p>You can have every expectation of being admitted to the MSW program in Alaska.</p>

<p>$30,000+ dollars will buy a lot of instruction in your special language :) (which you'll be able to continue in Alaska).</p>

<p>As well as many other freedoms and opportunities.</p>

19

<p>:-) Ask your parents about that old Billy Joel song. You seem to be in a rush...as though the state you long to live in may fall off the face of the Earth. You don't need to go there next year or even for grad school to experience living in that state. I would advise my own kid to:</p>

<p>Stay put, you have carved out a home for yourself in your current U and the price is right.</p>

<p>Do what Northstar mom said and visit</p>

<p>Try to take summer classes or get an internship in that state to get a better feel</p>

<p>Make sure you haven't romanticized what living in endless sunshine or seemingly endless winters/nights/days can do to a person's psyche. Climate can have a huge effect on a person and you really should consider how it may affect you.</p>

<p>Realize that an MSW may not be what you want in two years but if it is than go ahead and apply for the MSW program there as well as at other places. If you don't go to your dream state for grad school, go there after. It will wait for you!</p>

20

<p>Op- have you done an internship in social work yet or followed around a working social worker or two or three for a bit? I know many social workers, and their days are nothing like what they did in their Master's programs.</p>

<p>The social worker in our local school system spends her time shuffling papers and filling out reports. Kid slugs a teacher-- the intake, evaluation, assessment are all done by other people. The social worker fills out the forms, tracks the progress of the case, writes a lot of letters to other city and state departments and then calls to nag to make sure they get read.</p>

<p>The social workers in our local hospital also fill out forms all day; letters to insurance companies arguing why certain treatment plans are appropriate and should be covered; trying to get insurance to cover more expensive home care than allowed given family circumstance, etc. They occasionally meet families and see patients (clients) but the work is desk stuff, compiling statistics, doing spreadsheets, comparing this months stats on something to last months. The social worker in a hospice sees patients.... finds the work satisfying and gratifying. The social worker for the state's Department of Children and Family services hasn't met a child or family in a decade... he's a bureaucrat and spends most of his time preparing for hearings and arguing why training funds for foster parents should be increased. The social worker at a private foundation is a professional fundraiser.... spends days shmoozing wealthy donors and taking them to lunch to talk about endowing different programs.</p>

<p>If you were my kid I'd encourage you to either get a great education (which is what you seem to be doing now) and worry about Alaska and social work after you graduate. But you're not my kid, so you should at least know what the field is about (not the coursework, but the actual way that social workers earn a paycheck) so that if you decide to forgo your current scholarship you know what you're in for. </p>

<p>Most social workers I know got into it to work with people, improve their lives, etc. Many of the actual jobs in social works involve being a cog in the bureacracy of either state/local government, or arguing with insurance companies (health coverage is never enough; long term care insurance policy only covers 3 hours a day for an elderly patient with alzheimer's who needs round the clock care; disability payments should continue even though the disabled person was photographed playing golf at noon on a day when he was unable to show up at work.... you get my drift.)</p>