Transfer student looking for somewhere more intellectual

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello,
I just finished my first year at Barnard College and unfortunately I couldn't stand it. I am, in all honesty, a hard-core nerd and I feel as though Barnard attracted a lot of students interested more in academics for the sake of pre-professional advancement rather than any personal interest in/enjoyment of learning. In my classes there were a lot of conversations that sounded clever and witty on the surface, and a lot of people who knew how to make themselves look and sound very impressive, but little in the way of authentic deep thinking. The New York location also seems to attract people who place too much emphasis on fashion, trends, cliques, and parties (and drugs and excessive drinking), and I felt somewhat out of place. I know to some extent that any college is going to have some element of those attributes, but I want to find a school where I can feel more comfortable being myself and possibly be able to find more people like me who I can talk to.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I have several other issues that are somewhat constraining my options. I eventually want to go to graduate school for architecture, and I originally picked Barnard because it provided relatively serious architecture classes within a liberal arts context. As I have been looking at other liberal arts schools it seems that a lot of them do not offer that subject, so I may have to sacrifice that area for the moment if need be - you can still go to architecture graduate school without majoring in it at the undergraduate level if you have some other artistic background. If I can't find a school with architecture, one with strong studio art and art history course offerings would be the next best thing.
I also to some extent was hoping to go to college in a reasonably urban location (or located near a city) - I grew up in the suburbs in Florida and got bored of it, and now that I'm in New York there are lots of opportunities for me to take advantage of. This would also be something that I might need to sacrifice, but I'd still prefer otherwise.
Also, and this is a less tangible factor, but after coming from Florida I'm not a particular fan of the cold. I managed to survive the winter in New York, but I don't think I want to go anywhere that is much colder. There are a few otherwise attractive liberal arts such as Carleton that I would not be able to consider because of their location. </p>

<p>Anyway, the list of places that have come to mind so far, although many of them don't quite meet all of my ideal criteria.
Reed
UChicago
New College - Appealing for several reasons - they have lots of options for independent study, I would be an hour and a half away from my family, and since it's a public school in Florida it would be free for me under the Bright Futures program. They don't seem to have as many course offerings, however.
Wesleyan in Connecticut - I also applied to them and got in during my original college applications
Bryn Mawr (? - I've heard that they are a more academically oriented women's college, and even applied to them before, but I am worried about being too isolated from men.)
Grinnell (? - have also heard that it's a bit of a party school)
Sarah Lawrence (?)
Oberlin
Hampshire (??? - I applied to them the first time around as a safety, and they place a lot of emphasis on independent study, but I don't know if they would be rigorous enough academically.)</p>

<p>My high school GPA was 3.98 and my SAT was 1390 (800 reading/590 math). My college GPA is around a 3.7 (I have 2 grades that I haven't received yet, but I don't expect them to significantly alter my average). Unfortunately my transcript also has some other quirks that I am afraid could hurt my admissions chances - in my first semester I took Calculus (required for architecture school) pass/fail, and I also have two withdrawals. One of the withdrawals was from a PE class for a health-related reason, but last semester I also withdrew from a 3pt Computer Science class. I am presently trying to take the CS class again this summer to hopefully put some sort of a band-aid on the situation, but the withdrawal is still going to be there. In any event I am going to have to spend at least another semester at Barnard (I hadn't applied for transfer admissions earlier but was holding out to see if I could get into an independent study program that I was rejected from), so I will hopefully have a chance to raise my grades and show some more stable academic performance. </p>

<p>I would like to consider some schools that are more selective, but I have doubts about my ability to get in (especially as a transfer) and also about whether or not they would attract the right kind of people for me - they might be preppy-academic but not necessarily intellectual-academic.</p>

<p>Let me know if you have any thoughts or suggestions about the colleges I'm considering, or other schools that I should look at.</p>

2

<p>New College is a great selection as is Reed</p>

<p>also look at Swarthmore</p>

3

<p>Two more suggestions: Rice and Carnegie Mellon. Both offer architecture and both are in cities that are less self-consciously hip with student bodies that are definitely pretty dorky and proud of it. Both have more students, too, so it might be easier for you to find your crowd.</p>

<p>Given your Barnard experience, I do not think you’re going to enjoy Hampshire, Wesleyan, or Sarah Lawrence significantly more because I anticipate that the same students at Barnard are or were attracted to those schools.</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the suggestions. Rice, Carnegie Mellon, and Swarthmore all sound appealing, but I am somewhat concerned that they could be too selective for me to get accepted into (it’s my understanding that there are generally fewer spots available for students seeking transfer admissions), although it certainly doesn’t hurt to try!</p>

<p>One possible issue with Rice and Carnegie Mellon is that both their architecture programs are 5 year professional degrees (which I had also considered during my first round of applications but decided not to do since I wanted a broader undergraduate education), and since I enrolled in a 4 year non-professional program instead I would probably have to start over from year 1. I’ll probably email them though, and see if there’s a way that I could apply as a student in another major (I also have strong interests in a lot of humanities-type subjects) and still take some classes from their architecture program.</p>

5

<p>Reed is really liberal, as a warning, even if it has the academic climate you wish. I would aim for University of Chicago first, and then Reed second. Of your choices, though, those are the two best.</p>

6

<p>I thought of Swarthmore immediately.</p>

7

<p>The catch is that a number of the places that are reputed to be particularly “intellectual” are difficult to be admitted to and/or are reputed to have particularly onerous academics once you’re there.</p>

<p>FWIW, Macalester College has a joint BA/MA in architecture with Wash U, located right in St. Paul, from what we could tell student body there is a lot like Oberlin’s. It’s cold though, can’t help you there. </p>

<p>It should not be difficult to develop a list of maybe 50 schools that might remotely be of interest then google to see about architecture-related opportunities.</p>

8

<p>Are you sure you can handle a more intellectual environment when you are having some problems where you are now? Most of your alternatives are very selective.</p>

9

<p>Bryn Mawr is a good option for a pre-Architecture student. Take a look at the major in Growth and Structure of Cities [Bryn</a> Mawr - Growth and Structure of Cities Program](<a href=“http://www.brynmawr.edu/cities/]Bryn”>Growth and Structure of Cities)</p>

<p>In the last century, Bryn Mawr accepted transfer students at second semester. If that is still the case, you might be able to get in for January 2010.</p>

<p>Since you are unhappy at Barnard right now, you should consider taking a leave of absence for a semester (or a year) and doing something else. After all, you probably have been in some kind of formal school situation for the past 14+ years! While you are taking this time off you can think more carefully about where you want to be, without the stress of simultaneously trying to keep up with your classwork at a place you don’t like very much.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best.</p>

<p>P.S. At Bryn Mawr, P.E. is required but it isn’t an academic credit. I don’t think anyone there will care if you dropped/failed P.E.</p>

10

<p>I didn’t prospie at Bryn Mawr, but I did at Swarthmore and Haverford. There’s a considerable amount of social and academic overlap between the three schools (especially Swarthmore and Haverford). So first of all, I doubt you’d be too isolated from men at Bryn Mawr; second of all, if you like Bryn Mawr’s academics, it might also be worth looking into Swat and Haverford with the knowledge that you could study and even major across schools. Swarthmore often gets tagged as the most intellectual, but they’re pretty similar colleges, so if you like one, I bet you’d like the others.</p>

<p>About Oberlin: It sounds like you’d fit in well here. We don’t have an architecture program, but studio art and art history are major strengths. The art history program has a few architecture courses every year - last year’s offerings were Approaches to Western Architectural History, Architecture of the Enlightenment, Architecture in the Age of Historicism, Topics in Modern and Postmodern Architecture, and History of Sustainable Architecture. Winter Term would also be a chance to get some experience, and I think we’re affiliated with a study-abroad program (in Italy??) for students interested in architecture. I bet you could get some helpful information from John Harwood in the art department, who specializes in contemporary architecture, or from Erik Inglis, who’s the chair and a pretty cool/approachable guy.</p>

<p>On the flip side, we are not an urban school. We’re near Cleveland, but most people don’t go there often, for a variety of reasons (plenty to do at school and in town, and the trip can be a pain). And we do get cold weather, although you don’t have to be on campus for Winter Term, when it’s coldest. I don’t know anything about transfer admissions, so I can’t tell you anything about your chances…</p>

11

<p>Case Western is somewhat similar to Rice and CMU but not as selective and may be worth checking out for you.</p>

12

<p>I really disagree with unalove about Wesleyan, Hampshire, and Sarah Lawrence being like the pre-professionals at Barnard. Wesleyan, for example, is the antithesis of pre-professionalism. Wes students are intellectual for the sake of thinking. cross out Wes for other reasons, but do not group Wes with the people at Barnard you do not care for…</p>

<p>I think schools like Wesleyan and Swarthmore are both excellent choices</p>

13

<p>while i agree with your general assessment that Wesleyan, Hampshire and SL share some qualities, I have to side with unalove. The OP’s reasons for disliking Barnard could apply to just about any need-blind northeastern college. And, for that reason, picking another LAC just seems an exercise in futility. My advice would be to stick it out. New York is a tough place to make friends, but the reality is, 1) you’re already there, 2) definite opportunities exist, and, 3) there’s no guarantee you’d like any place any better.</p>

14

<p>I would 2nd New College of Florida. I personally think you need to get out of the north and lots of the LAC’s up there are similar.</p>

15

<p>“The OP’s reasons for disliking Barnard could apply to just about any need-blind northeastern college.”</p>

<p>Perhaps, but to various degrees. For example, I am familar with a case where someone felt much the same way about it as OP, and is currently having a much better experience at a university with high academic standards that is substantially larger and more diverse than LACs. Where there are more, and larger, groups it may become easier to find yours.</p>

<p>And branching a bit beyond Northeast, I have some second-hand experience to suggest that Oberlin would indeed feel noticably different, overall, in some of these particulars (eg proportionate focus on fashion & materialism). Though it might have other aspects that OP might also not like.</p>

<p>Interestingly, the biggest upgrade to be had is a true campus-based college experience, but that doesn’t even seem to be an issue for OP. That, and a social scene incorporating greater gender balance and co-ed dorms, and where the relative level of ego-inflation within the local community is more homogeneous.</p>

16

<p>I’m quite sure that Bryn Mawr has very, very few men on the campus, as in virtually none. I think UChicago’s a great choice for academics (I myself applied there as my first choice, but I picked Swarthmore instead after getting into both.), but the winters there are colder than New York’s, so I’m not sure you’ll like it. So are Macalester and Grinnell, and probably Oberlin.</p>

17

<p>Try looking and applying to Williams College.</p>

18

<p>Thanks for all the responses.
quaere, thanks for the detailed info. about Oberlin. I’ll look into contacting those people who you mentioned.
I’ll look more into Williams (I seriously considered applying to them the first time around), although they seem to be pretty hard to get into.</p>

<p>The comment about universities having more diversity is interesting, but I’m somewhat concerned that if I went to a larger school I would have more large non-interactive classes (although as a Barnard student taking some classes at Columbia I have been in quite a few already). Are there any universities that you all know of that break with that trend?</p>

<p>It’s true that I don’t particularly care about the campus setting issue - Barnard has some dorms across the street from the main campus, but there is a little bit of a campus feel where all of the academic buildings are condensed together, and Columbia across the street has a breathtaking campus. I am a little bit concerned that moving to a more campus-based college might mean that more of the social activities that I’m not interested in would be occurring in closer proximity to me - at Barnard the trendy thing to do seems to be to go out into the city to get drunk, as opposed to some other schools where those people might be doing more of that on campus.</p>

<p>As far as moving beyond the northeast, it seems that is where more (but obviously not all) of the nice colleges are located. Are there any other non-northeast colleges that would be good for me that I’m not thinking of?</p>

19

<p>How about Centre College in Kentucky? It’s a small liberal arts school in the south. It would be a change but it’s not Northeast.</p>

20

<p>At all schools, the biggest classes are intro, freshman & soph year, which you may be mostly out of. Upper level classes may be smaller, particularly if you are in a small major. Though not the same size as same course at LAC.</p>

<p>Some places you may be able to look up class sizes in upper level courses of potential interest. perhaps. Whether they will satisfy you, maybe yes, maybe not.</p>

<p>The flipside problem is some courses at an LAC can actually be too small for comfort, and fewer courses altogether in subareas that come to be of interest, as your studies progress.</p>

<p>Generally I sort of view the LAC as preferable for first two years, last two maybe not.</p>

<p>YMMV and all that.</p>

<p>The campus setting issue was not so much the physical presence of dorms near a patch of grass, it goes more to the vitality of life around that patch of grass. Maybe those people would not be trooping downtown to get drunk quite so frequently if there was actually much of anything for them to do on campus.</p>

<p>In the end, there are no perfect options for you based on your various criteria, you will have to make trade-offs. One viable trade-off result being staying put, as has been suggested.</p>