<p>That's because you never attended any other college besides the JC. If you have attended any other university or college, they restrict you to 80 units when transferring.</p>
<p>This is very upsetting to me. A totally ridiculous rule.</p>
<p>Well don't let that stop you from applying. Who cares if you get rejected anyway... all you're out is 60 bucks. Apply for admission by exception and explain your situation. If you're smart enough to get A's in math and physics classes some UC will be happy to take you in by exception. There are also other UC schools than just Berkeley and they're respected institutions.</p>
<p>One thing that I've been told twice by administration: at Berkeley there are rules for everything, but there is always someone with the power to make an exception to the rule. You just have to make a good case for yourself.</p>
<p>Um, what? MIT is better than Cal and Harvey Mudd on the undergrad level, but to say that undergrad at Harvey Mudd is better than Cal is ridiculous. Both are about the same...I can't believe this.</p>
<p>If we were comparing HYPSM to Cal or maybe Swarthmore and Williams to Cal I'd say you have a point, but honestly? Comparing HM to Cal? This is ridiculous. You guys are pulling for straws here. HM is not HYPSMSW, so spare us the bogus.</p>
<p>Because I have only attended Harvey Mudd, I do not have a holistic opinion on which top university or college is more difficult or "better." But what I can say is that Harvey Mudd is unique compared to all the others. There are only 700 students at the entire college and the professors have the same credentials as all other top universities but they spend basically all their attention on the undergraduate level. </p>
<p>Does this make is easier or harder, I'm not sure. I think that you have more help at HM but what exactly makes a science course more demanding than another one, if it is the same material you are learning? </p>
<p>I think that most top universities try and push the student to apply the concepts they learn instead of regurgitating information. Harvey Mudd definitely does this. </p>
<p>Harvey Mudd is also unique because the very first semester you are there you take intro to special relativity and quantum mechanics--it's not particularly demanding, but what other college or university requires all of their incoming freshmen to take a seemingly daunting class like this?</p>
<p>HM is unique--and it is hard to compare it to other universities like Cal or MIT or berkeley. I guess it is more close to Rose-Hulman or Olin, I don't know how challenging people think these colleges are, though.</p>
<p>Or Cooper Union. I'd say very similar to HM.</p>
<p>If you really think Cal will do the job, it wont hurt to apply. You are able to change your major before you have 90 units at Cal, but Cal is really just as tough and impersonal as Mudd. I really dont see that big of a difference. Maybe mail in your original acceptance letter? That might help to a small extent...</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are only 700 students at the entire college and the professors have the same credentials as all other top universities but they spend basically all their attention on the undergraduate level.
[/quote]
The professors do not have the same credentials. Show me a professor who turned down Berkeley to teach at HMC. You'll be surprised they'd drop HMC in a heart beat to go teach at Berkeley.</p>
<p>exmudder--</p>
<p>I took had 78 4-year transferrable units coming from UCLA and a 4 year in Argentina. I emailed a Berkeley counselor, and they specifically told me that as long as i was under 80 FOUR YEAR units, i was good. I was free to take as many classes at a JC ON TOP of the UCLA classes and would still be considered for admission. She said this was because "community college work by definition is lower division" so it wouldn't be a problem</p>
<p>I did-- I took four classes at JC last semester and got into Berkeley just fine. i'm also taking more classes this summer, and no one batted an eye. Just dont go over the 80 unit limit at your FOUR YEAR, and you're fine.</p>
<p>What HLS said. I've checked this out with UCB as well.</p>
<p>Thank you guys! That's refreshing to hear. What was the name of the counselor you emailed at UCB, I think I will email her/him as well, if that's cool.</p>
<p>Here you go:</p>
<p>"As to the units issue, this may not be a problem. You do not have a choice as to wether we will count your abroad units or not...you MUST submit the transcript of this work to us when you apply (if you don't and we find out, your admission can be revoked), and our international specialist will determine where they are transferable or not. We absolutely will not consider you for admission if you exceed the 80 unit cap of 4 year
units but the good news is that we can/will discount any community college courses above the 80 units. Its the 4 year units we worry about since community college work by definition is just the first two years of college work and cannot serve for upper division classes.</p>
<p>I hope this information is helpful...let me know if you have other questions or if this
is not clear.</p>
<p>Ileana E. Dorn, MA. Ed.
Assistant Director of Admissions</p>
<p>Office of Undergraduate Admissions
University of California, Berkeley
110 Sproul Hall # 5800
Berkeley, CA 94720-5800
(510) 643-3034
Fax: (510) 642-7333
email: <a href="mailto:ileanad@berkeley.edu">ileanad@berkeley.edu</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
MIT is better than Cal and Harvey Mudd on the undergrad level
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Even I have a hard to swallowing that, if I look at the "traditional" measures of undergrad experience. FWIW, MIT and Cal's class ranges look like:</p>
<p>61% under 20
14% over 50</p>
<p>Odd that those two ranges are exactly the same for the two.</p>
<p>Yes, I know there are other measures of undergrad quality, and that class sizes are definitely only a piece of the pie, but you can see that MIT may not necessarily be the incontrovertible winner in these battles.</p>
<p>Looks like I missed the flame war :O</p>
<p>OP: Sorry to see you go, but that's life :( I hope Berkeley works out better for you than Mudd so you can start passing your classes again :)</p>
<p>Can't we just leave the flame war to: we all hail from amazing schools, and the only final measure of "which school is best" all depends on how well the school suits your needs and dreams?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The professors do not have the same credentials. Show me a professor who turned down Berkeley to teach at HMC. You'll be surprised they'd drop HMC in a heart beat to go teach at Berkeley.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I usually do not like to bring up threads that have been inactive for more than a week, but this time I will make an exception. Please do not assume things about our (Harvey Mudd's) professors or how qualified or unqualified they are. You do not know them personally, and you do not know what their priorities are. In fact, you should not assume that about any professor at any school.</p>
<p>That said, I will concede that I believe there has been some 'high-horsing' in this thread, and that it is not fair to assume Berkeley or Mudd is more rigorous or harder to get an A in (particularly in math and physics). The only way to really tell is to have experienced both schools. So I don't think anyone should be arrogant enough to automatically assume that either one of these fine schools is easier to get an A in.</p>
<p>Exmudder, I know who you are. You are very smart and bright, believe me, and you can do well anywhere as long as you put in the effort. I hope it all works out for you.</p>
<p>Tropical your comment is so true.</p>
<p>
[quote=Trolling isn't cool, mmkay?]
we don't have to spend the rest of our lives telling others which state our college was in
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Is that a measure of UCB's quality and prestige, or a consequence of the fact it tell the location of the school in its name?</p>
<p>I've never heard of SUNY Albany before I saw it yesterday in PR complete list of colleges. I bet I could tell you where it is without using any resource at all.</p>
<p>lol tropical triceps. do you even go to the lectures to listen to these better professors? why are you even mentioning history? how does that make a better school or allow you to have a better academic experience? all it does is inflate your ego.</p>
<p>btw, 'a more realistic taste of a real world' lol seems redundant.</p>
<p>The entire muddy brigade has arrived and not a single member can assemble a coherent response? Outside of your own campus, who has heralded the "superior" academic standard of your curriculum? There is a whole lot of talk without any proof of concept. Where are the employers praising Claremont consortium grads, the papers published by Claremont professors, the alumni network, the international reknown, the political, financial, and academic clout? There's a lot more to respect than the mere belief that your classes are difficult. Plus, one would hope that you are making more out of your undergraduate experience than merely grinding through books and problem sets. </p>
<p>There's no doubt that LAC students receive more intimate attention from professors and more one-on-one guidance on just about everything. You guys are also closer to your classmates, obtain more personalized rec letters, and can better customize your college education. </p>
<p>In comparison, undergraduates are at the bottom of the food chain at Cal. We need to fight for drops of career and academic guidance, research opportunities with top PIs, classes, friends, networks, housing, and any semblance of recognition for our abilities. </p>
<p>There is no dignified way to declare the superiority of a liberal arts education here. If you are struggling through classes, just keep it to yourself - it should be the last source of anyone's pride.</p>
<p>Damn, Tropical you laid the smack down on all the Mudds.</p>