Transfer to CAL from Harvey Mudd College

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>I need some input on my situation! If anyone could give me some thoughts it would be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>So here is my background:</p>

<p>I'm white, male</p>

<p>In high school I was in the top 1% of my class (6 out of 600ish), I got basically all A's and took Ap's and honors etc. I was in ASB, I played varsity tennis, I was also in choir, blah blah blah. </p>

<p>I accepted to CAL out of high school but decided to go to Harvey Mudd College instead. It was a bad decision. It was so terribly small and confining, and the social atmosphere did not agree with me. I Failed 3 classes and voluntarily withdrew from the college last Fall because I just needed to get out. I have about 60 units at Mudd and I was majoring in theoretical physics. and I have a lot of random math and physics classes under my belt: like fourier series mathematics. </p>

<p>This last Spring semester I have been taking classes at my junior college, back in norcal and I've gotten all A's and I feel smart again! Mudd can really get you down, with it's academic rigor... </p>

<p>So, since I am getting good grades at My JC, and since I got into Cal a few years ago, does anyone think that I have a good shot at transferring to Cal for next Spring? Does the fact that I went to Mudd, a well regarding college, help me?</p>

<p>Or since I screwed up at Mudd, can I only get into a csu? </p>

<p>I'm doing all the IGETC because a lot of my mudd classes won't transfer because it is a private college and the courses are sort of different. </p>

<p>Any advice or anything would be very very very appreciated.</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

2

<p>Check out the transfer requirements...Cal will not accept students with more than 80 semester units.</p>

<p><a href="http://students.berkeley.edu/files/Admissions/9258_Info_TransAdm.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://students.berkeley.edu/files/Admissions/9258_Info_TransAdm.pdf&lt;/a>

[quote]
Most programs will not offer admission to students with excess units, i.e., more than 80 UC-transferable semester units before enrollment. EXCEPTION: If all course work was completed at a two-year college, this excess unit policy does not apply.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Unfortunately, Harvey Mudd isn't a 2-year college so the exception rule doesn't apply to you...just be careful not to take too many classes before transfer.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

3

<p>I say go for it and try. My only concern is that you dropped out of Harvey jsut because of its rigor. Berkeley is just as, if not more, rigorous and its size alone makes it more impersonal than Harvey. I dont think going to Harvey is going to help or hurt your admission. If I were you I would be more concerened if credits could be transfered but I doubt it. It wouldnt hurt to apply so Good luck!</p>

4

<p>so what, you think Berkeley isn't going to be as tough as Mudd? haha, you will be in for a surprise...think about this decision carefully and consult with a lot of peers before making presumptions, especially as such a presumption has caused you to "withdraw" from college.
take care, best of luck.</p>

5

<p>Physics and Math are quite difficult here...what are you applying to major in at Cal?</p>

<p>Tbh, I'd say you have a better shot if you applied for a different major.</p>

6

<p>Berkeley is easier than Mudd. Sorry. Now I am not saying Cal isnt great, but Mudd is just on the next level for undergraduate with regard to difficulty.</p>

<p>Anyways, personally I think you will do fine applying to the UC system. You might not get into Cal, but you probably will if you are instate. As for the credit issue mentioned by UCB, its worth calling them up and finding out where you stand with regard to credits.</p>

7

<p>"next level" - there really is no next level in regards to the difficulty of undergrad physics. both UCB and Mudd are the tops.
You cant say Caltech is on a whole different level to MIT, can u?
I also think that for the best students, Berkeley would have more opportunity for research and take grad courses, hence it could be hard as one wants it to be. The same can't be said about Mudd because it is not a phd granting research-focused institution.</p>

8

<p>Could you say that MIT is on a different level than Cal? </p>

<p>As for research, because of the small number of students research opportunities seem to be plenty. And since you ARENT competing with graduate students for projects, most of them are pretty good. Right now I am doing work at Rice University at present and it seems the Ugrads here get shafted pretty hard when it comes to the projects in these big-name labs. </p>

<p>And, there isnt a need for graduate courses at Mudd. There are graduate schools nearby however if I get the need to tickle that fancy, but I doubt I ever will. </p>

<p>And as an undergraduate physics major who has attended both a Cal and Mudd, I would say that there is quite the spectrum of difficulties in undergraduate physics, mostly in how theoretical the curriculum goes.</p>

<p>Edit- OH, and the "as hard as one wants it to be" judgment of the curriculum does not apply here considering the OP.</p>

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<p>Difficulty is not measured on a discrete scale (There is no MIT is a 10, Berkeley is an 8, etc.) Its really a wide band where I would say Mudd, Berkeley, MIT, and Caltech, Stanford, and many other schools are very similar. </p>

<p>The point that Cal ppl are trying to make is that if you didn't like Mudd because of its rigor, then you probably won't like Cal. Either that or change your major to something else ,because wherever you go next you will have a hard time.</p>

<p>Off-Topic: You cannot generalize and say Berkeley is easier than Mudd. You probably have not taken many udivs at Berkeley. If you did your LD at Berkeley with a smattering of UD courses, then transferred to Mudd where you did advanced UD courses then you can't really compare the two accurately. </p>

<p>The bottom line is that Mudd physics is challenging and good (a good friend went there), but lets not turn this into a debate about whose institution is more challenging.</p>

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<p>Cal might be just as "rigorous" as Mudd, but that doesn't mean it is as "hard to get an A" as Mudd. </p>

<p>Fact: the average student at Mudd is more intelligent than the average student at Berkeley. If exmudder works just as hard at Berkeley as he did at Mudd, he will get higher grades solely because of the fact that he is more intelligent in relation to his peers at Berkeley than Mudd. Basically, imagine taking a typical Mudd class, and increasing the amount of below-average students to make it more similar to a typical Berkeley class. Exmudder's percentile in that class would rise solely because there are more students below him.</p>

<p>Exmudder, I think you have a shot to get into Berkeley. You should definitely go for it. Unfortunately, Mudd's grade deflation and difficulty can sometimes "trap" students there. I know people who want to transfer but can't because their GPA is too low, or they wouldn't get as good of financial aid anywhere else.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The point that Cal ppl are trying to make is that if you didn't like Mudd because of its rigor, then you probably won't like Cal. Either that or change your major to something else ,because wherever you go next you will have a hard time.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Exmudder's main complaints are with the small size of the school and the restricting social life of Mudd. Berkeley is very large and has a great social life. Even if it is just as rigorous, exmudder is a better fit at Berkeley.</p>

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<p>^ Fact: Mudders like to troll Berkeley threads.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
^ Fact: Mudders like to troll Berkeley threads.

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</p>

<p>Yeah, this is totally trolling. I know just as much about college admissions as every poster in this thread so far, including you. I was simply going to present my opinion about his chances (which I did), until I read the defensive posts saying the OP shouldn't go to Berkeley because it's just as "hard" as Mudd. I don't think Berkeley is as "hard to get an A" as Mudd, and that point is actually relevant to the thread. Exmudder shouldn't be scared out of applying to transfer to Berkeley because of naive comments about it being too hard for him. Otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered to mention it. Never before have I seen posters want to scare away prospective applicants from their school.</p>

<p>Sorry, Mudders help Mudders, even exMudders.</p>

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<p>^ I wasn't referring to that...I was referring to this:

[quote]
Fact: the average student at Mudd is more intelligent than the average student at Berkeley.

[/quote]

Get off your f'n high horse.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Get off your f'n high horse.

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</p>

<p>I don't see what's wrong with that statement. There have been many comparisons before and the general consensus at the end is always "the top students are the same, but the average students differ." You never seem to accept that fact and I think that's always what blinds you with your posts when you compare Berkeley to other top schools.</p>

<p>I only said that quote because it's relevant in my point that exmudder will get better grades at Berkeley while putting in the same effort. He doesn't have to be scared about doing any worse at Berkeley than he did at Mudd, even if the above posters want him to be. Once again, stop being so defensive. Berkeley is the best state school in the country, but it's forced by law to take some less intelligent students that bring down the average. That's just the way it is and this is one ramfication of it.</p>

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<p>Remember, most classes at Berkeley are graded on a curve, so OP might get a B or C, but to suggest he'll have an easier time getting A is stupid. The number of students with extremely high stats are very concentrated in the math, physics, engineering majors, so OP is very unlikely to be anything extraordinary in any of these classes.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>You dont need to be extraordinary get an A at Cal. You dont even need to be extraordinary to get an A at Mudd. Its more about the amount of time you are able to put into your classes. And with the 5-6 classes we take each semester, compared to about 4 for Cal students, its becomes easier to spread your time out efficiently. No?</p></li>
<li><p>Regarding Mudders in this thread: I personally like to do a forum search for "Mudd" and see what comes back. This happened to be in the Cal section, and also happened to have the word Mudd in the title. I am not trolling Berkeley threads. </p></li>
<li><p>Its important to note that curves are typically not set by the highest students in the class, unless there is something preventing people from reaching the top. Its more customary to set a certain level based on the standard deviation and average of a certain class, such as a B- to the class average with std deviation being a letter grade or something like that. </p></li>
<li><p>Most importantly, we could more or less just throw away this entire argument because it is pointless. Even if the letter grade difficulties are the same at both schools, Mudders have to take more classes which adds to the rigor. It could probably just be left at that, and preserve the precious lengths of our ****s</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>
[quote]
Berkeley is easier than Mudd. Sorry. Now I am not saying Cal isnt great, but Mudd is just on the next level for undergraduate with regard to difficulty.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Honestly, that's so far from true. The course work is the same, though Berkeley's is more diverse. The material is just as hard. The graduates are just as successful.</p>

<p>On top of that, have you ever attended Berkeley? No, anecdotal evidence doesn't work here.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And since you ARENT competing with graduate students for projects, most of them are pretty good.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uh, Berkeley students will work with the grad students, not try to compete with them. There are many projects that are solely for undergrads; but the presence of grad students makes big-time research projects all the more plentiful, and undergrads can often get in on them.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Right now I am doing work at Rice University at present and it seems the Ugrads here get shafted pretty hard when it comes to the projects in these big-name labs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Rice =/= Berkeley. (And don't try to use simple logic to say, "Well if Rice is like this...")</p>

<p>
[quote]
And as an undergraduate physics major who has attended both a Cal and Mudd

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</p>

<p>Operative word: a. I believe you transferred from UC Riverside. No, you're not going to be able to compare research opportunities, rigor, etc. to Berkeley. You have not attended Berkeley. And the only Cal is Berkeley.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Fact: the average student at Mudd is more intelligent than the average student at Berkeley. If exmudder works just as hard at Berkeley as he did at Mudd, he will get higher grades solely because of the fact that he is more intelligent in relation to his peers at Berkeley than Mudd. Basically, imagine taking a typical Mudd class, and increasing the amount of below-average students to make it more similar to a typical Berkeley class. Exmudder's percentile in that class would rise solely because there are more students below him.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yup, get off your high horse. Please. I don't care what statistics say; it really has no practical significance here. You can try to elevate you and your peers above the average Berkeley student, but trust me, all you accomplish is putting Mudders in an arrogant light.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Exmudder's main complaints are with the small size of the school and the restricting social life of Mudd.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'd consider failing multiple classes to be a big complaint.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't think Berkeley is as "hard to get an A" as Mudd, and that point is actually relevant to the thread.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Then you proceeded to put down Berkeley students. (Not to mention your original claim is patently wrong.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
There have been many comparisons before and the general consensus at the end is always "the top students are the same, but the average students differ."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nice vague "there have been."</p>

<p>And yes, on CC. Unfortunately, CC is terribly misguided.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Once again, stop being so defensive.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Methinks it's you who's being defensive (after all, you were the one to jump on the opportunity to elevate Mudd's status when it was asserted that Berkeley was as difficult -- how dare they compare a state school like Berkeley to the Almighty Mudd!).</p>

<p>
[quote]
but it's forced by law to take some less intelligent students that bring down the average.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Repeating your point ad nauseum doesn't make it any more effective or true.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And with the 5-6 classes we take each semester, compared to about 4 for Cal students, its becomes easier to spread your time out efficiently

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What are you talking about? Perhaps you're thinking of UCR, which is on the quarter system, but Berkeley, like Mudd, is on the semester system. And Berkeley students very often take 5 courses (perhaps a lab, too, coming out to 6).</p>

<p>Seriously, Mudders, if all you're here to do is make specious claims regarding so-called "student quality" and research opportunities in a sad attempt to elevate Mudd, don't bother posting at all; it clearly wasn't helpful at all, especially since the OP doesn't care much for Mudd anymore.</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>Was your father a Mudder?</p>

<p>Was your mother a mudder? His mother was a mudder?</p>

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<p>So I've gotten quite the response to my post. </p>

<p>Yes, Mudd is difficult and Berkeley is difficult I'm sure.</p>

<p>I've never really had too much of a problem with the technical classes at Mudd. The three classes that I mentioned I failed were hum classes... </p>

<p>So I think that I would have no problem at Berkeley in the sciences--as long as I put in the effort. </p>

<p>Nevertheless, It's unfortunate for me because I think I want to major in psychology at Cal, but to do that I need to take more classes at the JC, but if I take more classes at the JC I will go over 80 units and Cal won't consider me as a transfer student. So it seems that the only way I can apply to Berekely is to apply for the major in physics or math. </p>

<p>Are you allowed to change your declared major when you go to cal as a transfer student?</p>

<p>This sucks, It looks like I may just have to go to Sonoma State, if I want to major in something other than math or physics. Because the state schools will take you basically no matter what.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
if I take more classes at the JC I will go over 80 units and Cal won't consider me as a transfer student

[/quote]

Wait, what? I transferred into Cal with about 90 units under my belt (all from a JC). I only got credit for 70 of those units but I transferred in as a junior just like all the other transfer students.</p>