<p>Im currently a sophomore philosophy and business double major at SUNY Binghamton. For awhile, Ive been considering transferring to a school such as Columbia, Vassar, Brown, or Yale. I have this very romantic idea of being in such an academically intense community, staying in the library until 5 am and drinking buckets of coffee every single day while conversing with some of the worlds brightest undergraduates. Maybe Id even find my unique calling in life amidst all of that youthful brilliance. </p>
<p>Im very unsure about what I would like to do later in life, but recently I started thinking about law school. Columbia Law costs $62,000, which seems to be the norm for many of the top private law schools. </p>
<p>If I was to transfer, Id be pretty much eating up my savings entirely (unless I was to get a nice amount of financial aid), and so I would have practically nothing for after graduation. This would require me to take out a lot of loans if I was to go to law school. However, I also know that top law schools such as Columbia accept a third of its class from the undergraduate school.</p>
<p>So basically, I see extreme pros and extreme cons of transferring. Given that Im not even sure what Id like to do, Im curious to hear the advice of CC, even if to just have the pros and cons further evaluated. Thanks everyone!</p>
<p>graduating with a high gpa from a better ranked school than binghamton will put you at a much chance for a top law school.</p>
<p>I know on the binghamton tour and on their website they cite things like "we send students to Harvard Law..." and so forth, but the fact is in the past 3 years they've sent 2 students while schools like columbia, brown, cornell, penn have sent around 50 students EACH during the same amount of time. You may want to take this into consideration. </p>
<p>Also, the average salary of a columbia law grad is probably around $110-120,000 a year to start. Paying off loans with a salary like this won't be very hard. </p>
<p>PS - i'd add cornell to your list if you like the whole staying up ridiculously late to study idea.</p>
<p>I've met numerous law school alumni with over $200,000 in debt and they didn't really seem bothered by it. Most of them told me that they would make it back in 3-5 years no problem. They also told me that there's alot of opportunity during their grad school years and after graduation (job fairs, internships, etc) and that reaching that "average salary" all depends on how one grabs at the opportunity. Those who attain the above average salary are the ones who truly utilized their opportunities. Donpon11, seeming as you're a pretty ambitious and motivated guy, i'd say you'd have no problem paying the loan back. The pros FAR outweigh the cons...think of the life time earnings. </p>
<p>By the way, this advice costs $100000, send me a check after you start working :D</p>
<p>"I’ve been considering transferring to a school such as Columbia, Vassar, Brown, or Yale. I have this very romantic idea of being in such an academically intense community, staying in the library until 5 am and drinking buckets of coffee every single day while conversing with some of the world’s brightest undergraduates"</p>
<p>I hate to break it to you, but you probably wouldn't see a huge OUTWARD diference between the students at your school and the students at the schools you've mentioned. I know people at two of those school (as well as other "elites") and can say they are as lazy and drunk as students at Arizona State. If you want to have to study until 3 am every morning, I'd sugest taking more (or more difficult) classes.</p>
<p>since im not even sure that law school is for me, i was wondering if transferring to, lets say, Columbia, would help in terms of getting accepted to a different Columbia grad program other than the law school. So let's say I transfer to Columbia as a philosophy major, would my chances of admission to the journalism school or the graduate philosophy program be better, or is this "1/3 of our graduate students were CC undergrads" only the case for the law school?</p>
<p>The philosophy program at Columbia is top-tier. </p>
<p>However, many departments of philosophy prefer their undergraduate who are interested in graduate work in philosophy to go else where to do it. I am not sure that Columbia has this position, but it would not surprise me. I am sure the director of graduate studies in the department will give you a forthcoming answer.</p>
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great idea, I'll contact the director of graduate studies soon. thanks for the advice!
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<p>You are a freshman in college.</p>
<p>Stop wondering about whether this or that school will help you for grad or law school placement. Surprise, surprise, pretty much any top 25 school will pave the way for a successful life. Concentrate on getting accepted to the school first, and do not tell me that you can only apply to one school; last I checked, you could submit applications to multiple schools and, if accepted to more than one, decide whether to commit.</p>
<p>Oh, and despite Columbia's PGR ranking, the Ph.D program is not as good as people make it out to be. Though there is a small chance you will not be smirked at by the director given the nature of your inquiry, there is a strong chance that he will be bewildered as to why you are targeting Columbia undergrad with the focus of getting into Columbia grad, when there are plenty of better Ph.D programs out there... unless you have a specific professor under whom you would like to work, which I doubt is the case. At any rate, look for Columbia's PG ranking to drop, since they just lost Waldron to NYU, and Kitcher and Raz will not push the program above its competitors further up north (and a little south).</p>
<p>nsped is the smartest person here! i would listen to him. Hes right, you dont need a degree from a top school. Any school in the top 25 would do. My cousin use to work for Emory like 10 years ago and she use to tell me how she use to see applications on the graduate division from all over the place, including schools such as cal states (state schools) to top privates like Harvard. Basically, the school you go to doesnt matter; what matters if your hard work and dedication.</p>
<p>PS. there are also great schools that are not in the top 25, like UWisc-Madison that produce more CEOs than harvard!</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Im a sophomore, not a freshman.</p></li>
<li><p>The reason for my transfer wouldn't be grad acceptances. I have no idea if I'll even end up in grad school, nor would I ever uproot myself from my current university for the sole purpose of strengthening a graduate application thatd be silly. The reason for my transfer would be that "I have this very romantic idea of being in such an academically intense community, staying in the library until 5 am and drinking buckets of coffee every single day while conversing with some of the worlds brightest undergraduates. Maybe Id even find my unique calling in life amidst all of that youthful brilliance." Its cliché, I know. But maybe Ill just go with it </p></li>
<li><p>I never said that I could "only apply to one school".</p></li>
<li><p>Again, I have no intention of "targeting Columbia undergrad with the focus of getting into Columbia grad".</p></li>
<li><p>My first post clearly explains my position, when I state that Im very unsure about what I would like to do later in life. Uncertainty does not necessarily equal grad school.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I created this post with a very specific question in mind the relationship between transferring and law/grad school (with a big IF plainly attached to the law/grad school part). Just because this specific post has a limited focus should not in any way lead someone to think that focus would be the only reason for my transfer, especially since I explain my actual reasons so bluntly in the first post.</p>
<p>Im not trying to be rude in my defense, but Id like to correct any misconceptions before not a graduate school director but Nspeds, does any more smirking.</p>
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Im not trying to be rude in my defense, but Id like to correct any misconceptions before not a graduate school director but Nspeds, does any more smirking.
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<p>That is just the thing. After having read your clarification, I now think that are you are just going to exasperate a graduate director. </p>
<p>You can call/e-mail/visit all you want, or attempt to disprove me. All I know is that the grad director here moans when he receives such speculative inquiries.</p>
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Uncertainty does not necessarily equal grad school.
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<p>...okay, then do not annoy graduate directors over mere maybes and maybe nots.</p>
<p>I wrote "great idea, I'll contact the director..." at the very end of a very long day. calipharius was kind enough to offer me his/her opinion on the matter, and I responded with an enthusiastic answer to perhaps make him/her feel that much better about giving me the thoughtful suggestion.</p>
<p>I think the main point I was trying to make, however, was not in defense of the idea of calling the grad director, but about my intentions for transferring in the first place.</p>
<p>Hrrm. I don't see anything wrong with transferring into Columbia if it actually does help admittance to Columbia law. It's very important to plan out where you want to go for graduate school. Most of my friends have already either decided, or are deciding what type of program they would like for graduate school. They also have an exact to general idea of which graduate school they would like to. If you want to get "ahead of the pack," plan well ahead, even beyond grad school. My suggestion is, know yourself and your capabilities, then find what you truly want to do, and go get it. Being unsure of what to do can sometimes amount to much time and effort wasted...</p>
<p>My older friends have followed the same "type A" personality route. They knew what their target grad school was looking for and they planned well ahead in order to ensure their admittance. Aside from rankings, they looked at the types of social networks at their target schools. Analyzing the social network would be something like comparing the quality of recruitment fairs, internship opportunities, etc. Not suprisingly, they are able to climb the corporate ladder rather fast. </p>
<p>Nspeds is absolutely right. There's no need to go to the top 25 schools to be successful, but it damn sure helps. Statistically in terms of average/median salary of alumni, it's the difference of being successful, and even more successful. It's fair to say that anyone can be the statistical "millionaire" outlier with hard work and dedication. However you're more likely to become a millionaire in a higher tier school. </p>
<p>On the other side of success, being content and happy, also takes diligent work too. The more you engage yourself in a certain major, the more you will be able to sort of..."imagine" yourself working in your field, then basing a decision on that. </p>
<p>Please take my remarks with a grain of salt. As you can tell, i'm very "Type A," and since i'm heading into finance, I am biased towards certain things. Good luck in your decision!</p>
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It's very important to plan out where you want to go for graduate school. Most of my friends have already either decided, or are deciding what type of program they would like for graduate school. They also have an exact to general idea of which graduate school they would like to. If you want to get "ahead of the pack," plan well ahead, even beyond grad school.
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<p>Yes, it is important to decide that you want to go to graduate school. Choosing a grad school before applying is rather foolish, since they accept so few. If one plans to apply to graduate schools, it is best to have a couple of programs that satisfy your requirements, rather than depend solely on one.</p>