Transferring out looks like attrition on CDS?

Parents Forum
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<p>We're all familiar with the bleak statistics of only 70%, for example, graduating after six years at many schools. But does the the 30% with non-graduation outcomes include kids who transferred elsewhere (and may very well have graduated elsewhere, maybe even on time?)</p>

<p>I was just looking at the Common Data Set ("CDS") for Rutgers New Brunswich, as an example. The six-year graduation rate for the cohort that enrolled in 2004 was 77%. But in the way the CDS deductions from that original cohort are described, nothing is listed that would account for those who simply transferred to other schools, as opposed to dropping out.</p>

<p>Any insights?</p>

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<p>No it does not include them.</p>

<p>Some schools, in separate reports, attempt to do this by using a national clearinghouse of graduates database. As an example, Iowa State has a 69% grad rate per CDS but they estimate it to be about 88% when considering those that transferred and graduated elsewhere.</p>

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<p>You are correct. That is one of the issues with the information. In addition, most state schools have part-time students who, by necessity, take longer to graduate … they are intentionally taking just a couple classes at a time, in order to be able to afford tuition.</p>

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<p>Kelsmom, yes. I thought that the CDS talked about the original fall full-time matriculated cohort. (I don’t have the CDS in front of me right now.) That would control for those who start intentionally as part-timers. I guess the grey area is people in that original full-time cohort who choose to drop down to part-time status. They are lumped together in the CDS with people who make less than full-time progress toward their degrees because they flunk courses, or take longer than 8 semesters because of changing majors, or simply not being able to get into their required courses.</p>

<p>As a parent, trying to assess whether to budget for 8 semesters or more, this data doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of help. Those who choose to drop down to part-time will of course take longer. Those who flunk and those who attenuate their programs by changing their programs are two different commodities.</p>

<p>The prospect of a degree taking more than 8 semesters because the school won’t let the student into the required classes is the most concerning prospect of all. How do we get information on the likelihood of that? Are we left to rely upon word of mouth, reputation and rumor?</p>

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<p>To add to the confusion, students who transfer in aren’t counted in those grad stats, either. </p>

<p>And, when looking at national averages, 70% graduating in 6 years is above average.</p>

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<p>Delayed graduation by calendar time could result from the following factors:</p>

<p>a. Taking time off (co-op job, gap semester/year, need to work to save money for school).
b. Part time enrollment, or below average credits per semester in “full time” enrollment.
c. Needing remedial course work.
d. Poor course planning (such as late change of major).
e. Failing and needing to repeat courses.
f. Difficulty in getting enrolled in needed courses because they are full.</p>

<p>Of the above factors, (a) does not result in increased school costs, so it should not really be a concern on that front (though some of the situations that cause the need for (a) may be of concern).</p>

<p>(b) may result in increased school costs (extra semester(s) of room and board unless commuting to a school local to where one would live anyway; tuition may depend on whether it is structured by semester or by credit). May be mitigated by bringing in AP or other credit upon entry.</p>

<p>(c), (d), and (e) are more about the student than the school. Students of marginal academic ability and motivation are at higher risk.</p>

<p>(f) is the one factor that is the school’s fault. One needs to check the school-specific forums to see whether that really is a problem. There do seem to be a lot of claims about this factor in an overgeneralizing manner, even though it tends to be rather school-specific (and often department-specific). Note, however, that some schools do offer a four year graduation pledge, where students not needing remedial courses who commit to follow their majors’ course plans get priority registration (this is offered at several CSUs where the overall four year graduation rate is under 20%, and at Minnesota where the overall four year graduation rate is 55%).</p>

<p>In general, you likely see higher four year graduation rates at more selective schools (where (c), (d), and (e) are less common, and the reasons for (a) and (b) are less common; many of the more selective schools are better endowed so that (f) is less common).</p>

<p>Four year graduation rates are likely to be higher at schools with more expensive list prices, due to the greater financial incentive to avoid taking an extra semester (especially if financial aid and scholarships end after eight semesters) compared to taking an extra semester at a cheaper in-state public university.</p>

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<p>Many state schools and some private schools have a 4 year graduation guarantee program. All have stipulations that require a student to…pass all classes, take at least 15 hours per semester, pay bills on time, register on time, take a class at 7am if necessary, etc , etc.</p>

<p>If you are concerned, sign up for one of those programs.</p>

<p>[Academic</a> Advising Center - Four Year Graduation Plan](<a href=“http://www.uiowa.edu/~uaactr/fouryeargraduationplan.htm]Academic”>http://www.uiowa.edu/~uaactr/fouryeargraduationplan.htm)</p>

<p>[The</a> Centre Commitment](<a href=“http://www.centre.edu/centrecommitment/]The”>http://www.centre.edu/centrecommitment/)</p>

<p>[Office</a> of the Provost | University of Wisconsin?Madison](<a href=“http://www.provost.wisc.edu/4yearhome.htm]Office”>http://www.provost.wisc.edu/4yearhome.htm)</p>

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<p>This is helpful. As to what I’ll call UCB’s Factor F – the necessary sequence of courses not being offered, or not enough seats to satisfy demand – I would imagine (hope?) that this is less of a problem for people who commit to an initial area of interest and map out their degree by the second or third semester. (Not that it’s always possible or advisable to do that.) But I’ve noticed that some schools offer important courses in a fall-spring sequence, or in a two year sequence. If you can’t start the sequence in the fall of the right year, you might be stranded, taking more distribution requirement courses (unneeded for your chosen program) while killing time and waiting for the sequence to restart. That could be expensive, and a leave of absence might actually be the only way to contain the cost overrun. (The LOA might also produce some worthwhile work experience.)</p>

<p>Another thing I’ve always wondered, somewhat cynically – how much do the colleges mind you taking more than 8 semesters? Maybe not at all? We know in other fields, that it is usually easier to get more business from an existing customer than to bring in new customers. If you are close to completing the degree, you will turn heaven and earth to do so, even with cost overruns, and they must know that they have you there.</p>

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<p>This could be an important consideration for some students, although it is often department/major-specific. Of course, students who change their majors late may be more likely to run into this problem even if it is not normally a problem. But study abroad, doing a co-op job, or taking a leave of absence may also cause the problem to appear where it would not otherwise appear.</p>

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<p>State universities probably want in-state students to finish as quickly as possible, because each additional semester means more subsidy per student (instead of being able to allow another student into the university). That is likely the reason that state universities are usually quite generous with credit units for AP scores (although they may not be as generous with subject credit or placement).</p>

<p>Of course, the economic motivation may be different with private universities, though that may also depend on whether the private university is primarily tuition-funded, or endowment-investment-income-funded.</p>

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<p>It might be a good idea for prospective students (or their parents) to ask ahead of time whether or under what circumstances a school with a high four year graduation rate might allow a student to take an extra semester or two.</p>