<p>you know, banana, you may not be practiced at expressing your inner most feelings but that doesn't mean you won't be pretty great at it given an hour to do just that. You might truly have a little useful epiphany if you try. Self respect and "knowing thyself" is really key for making all decisions..social and academic, family, career and it is a long lifelong task that gets ugly and in ruts for all of us at times. You have been so busy being a high achiever all your life that you may not have had time yet to get reflective and make social choices based on knowing and accomodating your own specific temperament and needs. Right now you only have to figure out in general your needs for say the next three years..what kind of community will make you emotionally happy and actualized until you are 23? Learning is not your problem. You learn well and like to learn. You are dealing with more intangibles. It could be perfectly true that a new community would be a lift for you.
Another little point I will make, is that 19 and 20 years olds are not really equipped/ready to serve as sage counselors to their friends, but peers who seem a bit vacuous or surface to you now may actually be people who are just also in transition and young themselves. In other words, never underestimate your peers who may surprise you in a year or so and turn out to be young adults who could matter a lot to you when they also get more clear about their own friendship circles, needs and direction. But it is a lot to expect of a classmate your age to help you sort this out right now. Friendships by the way in college are seldom settled by sophomore year and I know there are lonely bridge semesters for many people. Friendship circles tend to regroup a couple more times.
However, I bet you could crystallize the issues in two to three hours with an adult..who is likely to be well trained and someone you won't ever see again. This decision is important enough to warrant the effort. Picking up and going to a new college community takes a lot of energy. If you should decide to go, you want to go with positive energy and to leave Duke with good grace which would put you on happier ground with less baggage and unresolved thoughts for the next two years. A couple/Three counseling hours could help. My S by the way has gone to the Career office to take the Meyers Briggs. (He had the totally wrong profile for his first declared major, not that the Meyers Briggs is some all-knowing Greek Chorus, but it is a tool for reflection. He is on a path that is actually more suited to his temperament now.) My last little mental health shorthand tip is something your posts always tended to demonstrate anyhow. Having a generally "high opinion of others" is a good foundation for mental outlook in life in general. In this case, you would want to leave Duke while acknowledging the positives in faculty and peers there and instead leave for your own personal preferences which do not need to be defended because it works both ways..have a high opinion of your own instincts as well. I have to admit it can sometimes be hard to have a high opinion of some peers after freshmen year, but be generous in outlook and remember that ambivalence is a sign of intelligence and awareness not a flaw in you but a strength. Ambivalence is what makes great art sing..you see pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses, dark and light around you at Duke. See the gray areas and don't view yourself or others in black and white. Dealing with ambivalence well is what makes an adult functional but it certainly is something we all have to muddle through at points in life. You will work it through and make a good decision and go with your decsion with energy.</p>
<p>I know you think you are in the throes of this, but I don't see this as such a big deal. You know you are unhappy, and it is not for lack of trying. There are good alternatives out there that you can apply to, at least one of which is significantly cheaper, and one of which is significantly different, and the "prestige" attached to either choice is at least equivalent of where you are now. Your happiness could change, in which case you could stay where you are.</p>
<p>You don't need to "research Duke" - you're there. So check out the other schools, apply, and see what happens. In the meantime, take good care of yourself. You may be "miserable at Duke", but you may find friends or activities to mitigate your misery.</p>
<p>Parents go through the same ambivalence about where their children attend college. My son is a freshman at Duke and many days I wish he were 15 miles away at the University of Michigan. Socially, it probably would have been easier on him, too, because that's where most of his friends are. He wanted a change, though. He seems to like Duke a lot. He has joined many clubs and has found a niche with a religious organization, where he has found many friends with the same values. He is not an extrovert, but he has pushed his boundaries.
As far as "prestige" goes, I think going to a "name" college helps when you are applying to graduate school, or possibly for your first job. After that, it's not nearly as important as what you have accomplished personally.<br>
Transferring to another private school doesn't seem like it would solve the problem, when your friends would still be at UVA.</p>
<p>Hi Bananainpyjamas - good luck working through this! To me your being at Duke 2 years and still not be happy with the situation certainly is an indicator that something must change. Given your terrific academic performace so far your options should be terrific and the potential options you have listed are all great schools so I wouldn't even consider any prestige/ranking differences in your thoughts. However, the one thing I have not seen in your posts that would make me comfortable that transfering would be a big help is why your being at UVA would be a significantly different experience than being at Duke. You have mentioned a very close friend at UVA which certainly would be a HUGE help ... but what are the other attributes about Duke that you do not like and does UVA share these same attributes? If you were my child and could provide solid answers to these questions I would be much more sure about the transfer to UVA as a good solution to the current situation. I'd want to make pretty sure a move to UVA will be a big help.</p>
<p>BTW - for me, a quiet-shy person, I often find it easier to talk through things with a "stranger" such as a counselor ... they are totally neutral in this situation and their only interest is in helping you figure out what will work best for you ... all the people who already know you probably have a bias of that solution they think would be best for you and it is very hard to counsel without having one's biases come through also.</p>
<p>Don't base your choice on the academic quality of the two schools. They're both good.</p>
<p>If your goal is really a PhD in management, just make sure to take advanced classes, especially in econ/math/econometrics wherever you end up and try to work or do research with a professor. If you do this, the differences between Duke and UVA are nil.</p>
<p>I've been director of our econ PhD program and I can tell you that at the level of school you're discussing the "name" of the school is less important than the rigor of your coursework and the letters of recommendation you manage to obtain.</p>
<p>If you have strong reasons to believe you'd be happy at UVa and you'd save money, I don't see why you should hesitate to go there. Just be prepared to find that switching schools doesn't cure all woes.</p>
<p>I am also Indian and I felt a tremendous pressure at Columbia to conform to a clique. I also think Duke operates in a similar manner. I transferred to Dartmouth (over Brown and Duke) because I felt is was much more integrated overall, and it was the best decision I've ever made in my life.</p>
<p>My advice is to apply to UVA--then assuming you get in, you could make your decision at that time. It may not turn out well if you try to just suck it up because if you're prone to depression, you could end up depressed and it will affect you mentally and emotionally.</p>
<p>stocktradermom - The problem is that everyone else became super-close to a group of friends very early on. I realize I shouldn't compare my friendships here to those of my high school friends (some of whom I've known since third grade). But the relationships I've forged come up short when compared to everyone else I know here at Duke, which IMO is a signal that something's wrong. </p>
<p>AudiB4 - Thanks, I may send a PM your way in the future. :)</p>
<p>Faline - Don't worry, I don't resent Duke or even the people here at all. Oh and trust me, I've definitely learned that friends aren't really the best people to ask about things like this. If I tell my Duke friends I don't like it here they look at me like I'm crazy, and if I tell my friends at other schools I'm thinking of transferring to UVA they...look at me like I'm crazy, heh. My dad contacted the counseling center and so I've received a few calls from someone there but I still don't really want to go. If I go to a psychologist they'll just try to put me on medicine again and I don't want that. </p>
<p>mini - Yeah, I realize it seems pretty obvious that I should transfer, but I keep hearing things that make me think I should stay. Like yesterday, I spoke with a PhD student at Fuqua (the graduate business school) and they discouraged me from trying to conduct research on my own, saying undergraduates don't have the skills to pull off independent research. They said I should do something with a faculty member, which makes me much more hesistant to leave Duke and by extension my job as a research assistant at Fuqua. So you'll have to forgive my perpetual state of confusion in what probably should be a fairly clear-cut decision. :)</p>
<p>3togo - I'm planning to visit UVA soon to see if it really is as different from Duke as one of my friends claims it is. My main issues with Duke have to do with its being rather conformist and very cliquish. </p>
<p>Not quite old - Thanks for the advice! I already have a job as a research assistant at Duke and will see if it'd be possible to get one in either McIntire or Darden over at UVA. </p>
<p>slipper - You know, I've heard a lot of good things about Dartmouth, especially from another Indian girl who transferred there from Duke. The only reason it's not on my list is that I read that I'd have to stay there for six semesters, and that's not something I can afford at this point.</p>
<p>stan - I am prone to depression but barring one incident late last year I've handled it fairly well so far. I realize staying here might make things worse, but I also don't want to feel rushed into switching to UVA, which is why I've decided to wait for a fall transfer should I decide to leave Duke.</p>
<p>Undergraduates undertake independent research all the time (though my stepnephew says it is less common at Duke.) At my d's school, 50 student are given paid research assistantships in their first two years, and many of them (including my d.) go on to independent, peer-reviewed, publishable research as undergraduates.</p>
<p>just to chime in, be very careful (absolutely certain) about this decision. It's something I had to deal with. I was doing exceptionally well at Cornell (~3.8) and did have a nice social network as well. However, I really hated Ithaca and quite frankly, I wanted a change. I am from the NE. I got into UChicago, Northwestern, Rice, Wash U, and waitlisted at DUKE and COLUMBIA!!!!!! I transferred to Northwestern......not a great decision and I am frankly considering transferring back to Cornell.</p>
<p>Don't make the same mistake idea. Transferring is reallly difficult and I am sure if slipper was being honest, he would say that ur first yr as a transfer will be extremely difficult. It is not easy to acclimate to a new school. But I agree, a place like dartmouth (I WISH I HAD APPLIED) is probably more conducive to transfers than a big school. Perhaps, Rice, they treat transfres really well over there. I just think if you are doing so well at Duke, I would just stay there....And the transfer process is not easy. I got word of my waitlists i am not even kidding in the heart of final week, and it reallly got my down, such a blow to me and my family. I put my heart in the columbia ap only to be waitlisted,which was an accomplishment in its own right.</p>
<p>just a thought, good luck!</p>
<p>Banana, Dartmouth only requires 2 years (six quarters). Simba, to be honest probably the biggest reason I chose Dartmouth over my other choices (Brown and Duke) was due to Dartmouth's really inclusive transfer experience. There were many factors (sophomore summer, frat rush is second year, small school, lots of study abroad to meet people, tightknit student body) that made it stand out for me. But you're right, it wasn't easy off the bat, I really did work to make it as positive as it was. To add to Simba's point, I do think you should really consider staying at Duke banana. Its a great school and at worst I would continue to try and make it work before deciding to transfer. You never know when a school will click.</p>
<p>Lots of the most interesting creative people on the planet are prone to depression. Have you ever enjoyed a symphony or film score written by a non moody person or seen a film done by an uncomplicated person? It is ok to have dark and light spells. </p>
<p>But you need to understand that these particular years at the end of the teens and beginning of your twenties are just a vulnerable time when it might be best to have an adult to hear you out, so that you don't go through an even harder time somewhere else. Re meds, there are very few circumstances when you would be forced to use them but a season on meds usually greatly resolves depression when coupled with talk therapy. It is just a very treatable thing.</p>
<p>I never thought you were anything but decent re Dukies since you are always so very open spirited and generous on the boards towards others.
Much easier to accept depressed spells as part of your life if you are also settled with your own friends and your own career etc but this year of your life..the 19th and 20th year are of course years when everyone is sort of totally Out There exploring and the opposite of settled. Anything goes and social groups can indeed by sort of fragile and founded on specious grounds. But everyone outgrows this more confused era soon. It is hard to deal with moods and with excessive ambivalence without that support system of people you can tell anything to and feel accepted, and that is just not in place for many people yet.
If you are prone to some depressed thinking, you should at least consider doing the talk therapy every week or two, because depression can interfere with logic and proportion in your thinking. And you need logic on your side and proportion to help so you can get some perspective and make choices you are happy to live with.<br>
I would never dare to argue that Duke is not cliquiesh etc because you are living it, and I am sure you already have heard about UVa's social scene. I am glad you are going to visit UVa this semester and I suppose you could even figure out how to take a summer course there if that would help you decide.<br>
Dartmouth really did impress me as an intimate school when we visited. Have you considered William and Mary? just a thought..I am always impressed with people I meet from there..it is a more cohesive community and contact with full professors is pretty high, more classes are smaller. Virginians tend to take it for granted but it is a jewel of a college. Cliques exist everywhere but there are several social scenes in Charlottesville that seem really open and fresh. Anyway..let us know how you are faring and thanks for the responses!</p>
<p>I've visited William and Mary several times and for whatever reason just wasn't a huge fan of the place. It's certainly a great school that offers a much more intimate environment than UVA, but it's just not for me.</p>
<p>simba - Trust me, I'm not taking this decision lightly. But I also don't have a nice social network here, which leads me to believe that I don't have much to lose in that respect. And I'm lucky in that finals end May 5 this year, so I probably won't be hearing of any decisions until after that.</p>
<p>slipper - Oh okay, thanks for the clarification. :) I might check out Dartmouth then. And yeah, I'm going to keep trying to make Duke work; it's just that things aren't looking too good.</p>
<p>bananas -- You seem like a very intelligent, thoughtful young lady. I think every parent who has responded wishes you well, whatever your decision. Best of luck to you and I hope very soon you are posting here and saying you are very, very happy!!</p>