Transgender Penn swimmer dousing the women's records

Of course, the whole thread is mostly about what the rules should be or should have been (versus what they are or were), based on posters’ varying definitions of what is “fair”.

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No, if one feels the meet is rigged or being conducted under unfair rules, one might choose not to participate as an ethical decision.

And next year the debate will move on to whether any records set before the rules changed should be preserved or deleted, as has been the case in athletics, baseball etc for the last decade or more.

The argument made here is that if records can never be broken under current standards for participation, then those records should not be retained, because future participants will suffer (though notably the LZR swimsuit records weren’t deleted because they were actually reachable within 5-10 years):
https://slate.com/culture/2011/08/the-women-s-track-and-field-record-book-needs-to-be-expunged.amp

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As expected, Lia Thomas is winning every event entered at the Ivy Championships, although interestingly, the runner-up in the women’s 100 free swim is a transgender male from Yale. He has had surgery but not hormone treatment to affirm his male identity and thus is allowed to swim in the women’s division.

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While she has set some “records,” such as school and meet records, I don’t believe she has set a single women’s national collegiate record. She’s currently the top ranked female collegiate swimmer in two events, but isn’t even the favorite in either of the other two events in which she may compete.

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Update:

Not newsworthy or surprising given the circumstances.

It won’t be the last time unless and until legislators and the national governing body of each sport take steps to protect female sports and female athletes start standing up for themselves.

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Not newsworthy? Well, I’m checking the scores of the basketball games on ESPN and it’s one of the top news stories there on their site. :person_shrugging:

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Emma Weyant won the title in my book.

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And Columbia isn’t ranked #2 in my book. :joy:

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What book is that?

The book that says when you’re competing in the female division of a sporting event you need to be female.

And that book is authored by the NCAA, which is the currently applicable rules.

Anything else?

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That’s not what the NCAA says.

Hence my point that until groups, like the NCAA and US Swimming and the IOC, acknowledge that gender and sex are not the same thing female athletes will continue to be disadvantaged.

It is one thing to disagree with the rule but it is quite another to disparage or dehumanize Lia Thomas. It’s not only bigoted, it’s cruel. She doesn’t deserve it. No one does.

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I’m not dehumanizing her. Lia’s free to live however she chooses. But Lia is not a biological female and should not be allowed to compete in sports against biological females. Caitlyn Jenner who has first hand experience supports the same position. Is she dehumanizing Lia Thomas?

We’ve covered this territory before and I’m not rehashing it with you again.

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Great, so long as that means you are done demeaning her.

So the NCAA and member schools are violating NCAA rules? Is that what this is about?

I am sorry, but citing Caitlyn Jenner is not an argument. You’ve made an argument, as a matter of NCAA rules and law, that it is illegal for Lia to win this. What is your basis for that?

No it’s about a fair playing field for female athletes. The NCAA is a joke.

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