The photo proves absolutely nothing to me. Lia is standing on the 1st place podium, which is obviously higher than the 3rd place podium, where the other swimmers are standing. Pictures can be very deceiving and the swimmers are covered up with clothes. I’d want to see arm, leg, back muscles, etc. before making any observations about “mass” or lung capacity, otherwise we’re just assuming.
Now if someone wants to do the legwork and lookup the swimmers heights, weights, wing span, body composition, VO2, etc. then maybe we can make accurate comparison of body types.
No one has suggested her gender change was primarily due to an interest in winning races. I am sure it was not. Nevertheless, even the best motives can have unintended consequences, such as this one when it results in an unfair advantage. It seems the swim world will solve this by having “open” races available to all and restricted races available to women with low testosterone levels.
They changed the rules because of this, and in 10 years if another trans woman wins races, they will change the rules yet again. The reality is that a vast majority of the population will never accept a trans woman in competition against anyone other than men.
That’s OK, but let’s call it what it is, and not hide behind a curtain of “fairness”.
It’s only fair if the trans athlete doesn’t win, because the moment they come close, the genetic analysis starts. Most people will say they support LGBTQ individuals because they know it’s the socially acceptable thing to say (in many circles), but that support ends when it threatens the historical norms and unconscious bias.
By repeatedly resorting to this line, to me you are just saying there is no point having a further discussion on the matter. Which is fine. Have a good one.
And that is because there is a reason almost all sports competitions are divided by sex. There are actual physical differences between them that require separation in order for the competition to be fair and safe. The genetic analysis is the point.
I don’t think Martina Navratilova’s prior support of LGBTQ causes was in pursuit of “social acceptance” nor do I suspect her current asterisk comments reflect “unconscious bias”.
People of good conscience can disagree about complex issues without casting one another as bigoted.
If it makes you feel better, I think swimming would be perfectly fine with eliminating all references to gender and simply categorizing competition as either open, or restricted to low testosterone swimmers, regardless of how they became such. That should delineate between those with higher levels, for whatever reason, and those with low levels. Gender identity wouldn’t be a factor.
Your idea is one way of dealing with the conundrum that I think is a strong contender. The low testosterone category could include cis-women, transmen who have chosen not to transition with hormones yet, transwomen who transitioned before testosterone-puberty, women with DSD such as those who have XY chromosomes but complete androgen insensitivity, non-binary identifying individuals who have never experienced testosterone- puberty (among others.)
I don’t believe those two measurements for just those two athletes yields much conclusive evidence. Obviously, wing span and lung capacity are probably two additional important factors, plus technique and coaching matter as well. I’m not a swimming expert by any stretch.
My main point is that “you cannot judge a book by its cover,” especially when the cover, the pic above in this case, offers a distorted view of the swimmers.
I googled “does mass matter in swimming?” and the answer that I got was:
BTW, Lia finished 5th in the 200 free, so stating the obvious, there are 4 better female swimmers in the 200 free. There are just too many variables to consider besides just “mass,” which has been postulated as an advanatge from a photo where one person is standing on the 1st place podium and the others in the picture are slighly bending their knees on the 3rd place podium.
I can tell “you” that in a gym, I would never assume someone with more “mass” can lift more weight, male or female. Just like swimming, there’s just WAY too many variables, beyond just physiology and technique.
I know little about swimming, but I would think that in general mass, height , wingspan , etc. are relevant in terms of male/female differences , especially as kids move into more elite levels.
“General mass” doesn’t matter, otherwise you would see 300 pounders winning races. It’s about body composition. Males can have an advantage there, but I’d want to see the %'s. I recently had a DXA scan so I know my %'s.
And besides all the physcial aspects, there’s the mental game too. I’ll bet swimmers such as Katie Ladecki and Missy Franklin had “killer instincts” too, to go along with their physical prowess.
But, they have “killer instincts” going up against other girls from an early age. They are competing against other girls with different mass, height, weight, etc. differences. They are not competing against males assigned at birth.
IMO, the rules are the rules. You compete based on the rules that exist. If you don’t like the rules, then change the rules. I’m sure someone has said that same thing in the previous 400 posts or thereabouts.
Also, Lia’s alleged physcial advantages didn’t help her win the 200 free, where she finished 5th. And for little I know about swimming, with her physical advantage(s), why not compete at breaststroke, backstroke and/or butterfly? While they’re all different swimming strokes, why not win some of those too? Heck if it were me, then I’d try to win everything with my “massive advantage.”
Bottom line, she happened to be the best in one stroke at one distance.
