I was amused by my daughter’s reaction to the original Chicago letter: “The entire university is a safe space for white male economists and classicists. They’re just saying don’t bother us with claims for anyone else.” She also thought that the letter was a PR stunt attacking a straw man position, and failing to acknowledge that much actual student activism is oriented towards things the university could do to be more welcoming to groups it persistently has trouble recruiting and retaining. That’s not the same thing as suppressing speech.
What about the email did they perceive as racist, dstark? What actual words told them these were racist people?
@Pizzagirl, did you watch the 4 videos from Reason that @Ohiodad51 posted?
@JHS, I like your daughter’s comments.
4 videos from Reason just confirm that entire Yale university is a safe space for white males
Wow so much to think about. I think I agree with the points OhioDad is making but I need to digest more. Growing up when I did I feel impacted by the things that ‘we’ felt strongly about Che Chuevara, Apartheid, equal pay for women, SDS, black panthers and trying to reconcile my experiences with what kids are screaming and yelling about now and at the heart trying to figure out whether I feel their methods are appropriate almost more than their messages.
@dstark said:
Well given their misinterpretation of the email, and the subsequent uncalled for yelling, are you sure that your second statement is still true?
Another example of exploiting students by right wing media. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/07/us/campuses-cautiously-train-freshmen-against-subtle-insults.html?_r=0&referer=
I watched the 4 videos… remember this is a man extremely well trained in behavior and group behavior dynamics and outcomes … watch his body language and tactics I think he is playing/ toying with these kids to wind them up. He knows exactly the outcome he is getting.
It is very clear to me that students across the country see a problem on campuses - individual media hyped cases aside - what are the students across the country trying to tell us?
Here is an interesting article from Inside Higher Ed analyzing what students at 76 institutions are demanding
https://higheredtoday.org/2016/01/13/what-are-students-demanding/
“Ninety-one percent of student groups called for reviews and revisions of institutional policies and practices affecting campus climate and diversity practices. These demands include calls for campuses to advocate beyond the students (for example, demanding that institutions divest from prisons and adjust human resources practices for temporary employees), make college more affordable, implement climate surveys with access to resulting data for students and stakeholders, revise faculty review practices including tenure practices and student course evaluations, clearly define protocols to report incidents of hate speech and bias, allow student oversight of college and university processes, and other general calls for policy review.”
in summary
“When considering the student voices from across the 76 institutions or consortiums, a broader picture for accountability and systemic change can be seen. These students are petitioning institutions to consider expansive shifts to institutional culture rather than merely stand-alone programs or add-on policies. The demands are calling for a change in how marginalized student groups access, experience and are represented in higher education. While some demands will require long-term systemic approaches, the next few months will be critical as student organizers and administrators collaborate to find workable solutions for students today and for those who enter higher education in the years and decades to come.”
I don’t think this is merely students having a problem with free speech…
So what we can see in the video must be disregarded because, although the professor was not worthy of respect or have any idea what he was talking about, he was so skilled in his profession that he was able to incite these brilliant kids, who can learn nothing from their professors or anyone else, into making idiots of themselves all while appearing calm and conciliatory. That’s pretty amazing.
And how do you explain the videos from Dartmouth, Missouri, Jigglypuff, or any of the other reported examples of students behaving horribly? Were they all set up by shadowy, nefarious others?
“watch his body language and tactics I think he is playing/ toying with these kids to wind them up. He knows exactly the outcome he is getting.”
This “analysis” reminds me of the KY governor who says that violence will ensue if HRC is elected. Blame everyone for provocation but give the actual actors a pass on their actions.
He’s not remotely toying with them. They are out of control. How pathetic that you blame him for their actions.
“what are the students across the country trying to tell us?”
There are always a handful of annoying, get-offended-at-anything people with loud mouths who ruin it for everybody. That’s what it tells us.
My kids had to contend with such people on their campuses. They and their friends wished those folks would just shut up, stop making a federal case out of everything, and let everyone get back to learning.
"The students were confronting the professor and her husband for what they perceive to be a racist emai sent by the masters of their house.
The students aren’t stupid."
Sigh. Yes they are, dstark, and they aren’t the only ones.
Here are two points of view about potentially offensive H costumes.
A) The university should proactively remind people to think about costumes, and should step in and mediate (and/or prohibit or strongly censure) certain ones.
B) The students, being young adults, don’t need the u to babysit them. Just as they make free choices in all other matters, they should make free choices in this matter. If someone is offended, they should engage in dialogue with the offender.
Both of these are positions reasonable people could take. Neither one of these positions are racist. Anyone who interprets B as racist isn’t quite as smart as they think they are.
You are right, this is not just one campus. Students at many campuses across our nation are not happy with the status quo. They are trying enact change and get a message out. Maybe they are using shock tactics? maybe they are at boiling points?
IDK -but I do know that for me-
Maybe it is important to listen and try to understand what their overall message is rather than merely dissect snippets of “horribly behaved” videos.
IMO there are too many students at too many campuses to disregard their concerns. The students across our country have identified a problem -As posted above here are their concerns:
“Ninety-one percent of student groups called for reviews and revisions of institutional policies and practices affecting campus climate and diversity practices”
“The demands are calling for a change in how marginalized student groups access, experience and are represented in higher education”
So, do we want college campuses to be diverse, or not? Maybe we don’t. But if we do, I think its clear we need to look beyond and listen to the overall message… because it seems 91% at all identified 76 schools are calling for the same thing.
Thank you @Ohiodad51 . This article helped me understand that my every post on this board was a microagression. Verbal, non-verbal and environmental.
It seems students at Clarkson University cannot study chemistry if portraits on the wall do not depict people who look like themselves. Luckily there is a solution that was successfully implemented in the Soviet Union. Every chemistry law should be renamed after a scientist of color and all portraits should be replaced.
"So, do we want college campuses to be diverse, or not? Maybe we don’t. "
Diversity of skin color, ethnicity, etc means nothing if all opinions have to be exactly alike and approved by the social justice warriors. Ms Luther (now I remember her name) seems to have little tolerance for diversity of opinion when it comes to what role admin should play in monitoring Halloween costumes. She had one opinion, see, and she was going to yell at anyone who didn’t share that opinion and tell them to shut up. She’s all about diversity, eh? Unless it’s an opinion that doesn’t fit HER worldview. Again, who died and made her queen? Don’t you think it’s possible other Y students shared Christskis’ view but weren’t interested in being yelled at by someone with no self control who appointed herself the arbiter of truth?
@runswimyoga, maybe the disconnect is that I see no evidence reported anywhere that a majority of students want the same thing the SJWs want. Certainly stating that 91 percent of student groups want reviews and revisions to diversity practices proves no such thing. Frankly, if there was such a unity of opinion on campus, there’s would be no need to shout down speakers, threaten students in a library, etc, etc. Nor do I think that because like minded students want similar things automatically makes them correct. At the end of the day I believe that we all must live and exist together. The system as designed can not work if we must bend to every group simply because they believe passionately about a particular thing. It is always a question of how much the larger community is willing to adjust to accommodate the requests of particular groups. Here, the issue is how much we collectively, or the greater college community if you want a smaller scale, should restrict the free exchange of ideas within the context of their larger educational mission.
Your data tells us nothing other than that a lot of BLM affliliated groups have similar agendas. This is not a shock to anyone. I bet close to 100% of the state NRA groups support open-carry. It would be idiotic to think that this means that there is anywhere near 100% support for open carry among the general public.
I have children currently on some of the campuses being referred to in this and related threads. I think it’s fair to say that the majority of students are in the sensible middle - they think there are legitimate issues and support steps to improve things, but they do not support the more extreme demands or some of the tactics used.
For example, a few months ago these so-called “very smart and well behaved” students decided to protest by throwing wads of Monopoly money at Salovey, the Jewish president of Yale. How sensitive of them. Bet these same students would have a conniption fit if something that racially/ethnically charged was done to them.
Student opinion is divided when it comes to issues like safe spaces or even if Calhoun college should be renamed (I happen to agree that it should be renamed, FWIW). However, those in favor of renaming tend to be very passionate about it, while those not in favor don’t feel that strongly. I also think the Yale student body leans stronger “left” (assuming the left/right dichotomy is the right way to frame this) than the students of most other elite colleges.
@Pizzagirl, who died and made you the arbitrator of what is racist?
Who made you the decider on what is acceptable behavior?
I am not the arbitrator or decider either.
There were a lot of students upset by the actions or inactions of the professors. It wasn’t just the student yelling in the first video who was upset.
The students were handling the Halloween costume issue until the professors threw in their opinions. The professors should have kept their mouths shut and let the students work things out but they didn’t.
Because the professors interjected, now the students are having a different learning experience.
Ted Danson did a blackface routine at a Friars Club Roast and it didn’t go over too well.
Great point. I asked my kid about the Wilson College protests at Princeton last year (he is in Wilson). He said there were a half a dozen kids trying to make a legitimate point who were drowned out by a bunch of jerks. Overall, his impression was both within Wilson and the larger university most of the discussion centered around the kids not wanting to be forced to take an additional diversity class.