<p>Now that we're getting acceptances from the schools that my S applied to (UIUC, Case, RPI, GaTech), he's waking up to the fact that more selective schools, e.g. MIT and Carnegie Mellon, look pretty good. If only he would have realized this a year ago.</p>
<p>Here's a kid that really has coasted through school. He doesn't sweat school (he will work diligently to complete an assignment, but never studies for tests, etc.) He wouldn't take an SAT II test, didn't see the necessity, took the SAT once, was happy with his score. He is now starting to realize that other kids need to work hard to achieve what just comes naturally to him. </p>
<p>One weekend, a couple of his friends were going to MIT to check it out and invited him along. He came back all excited about it and is now on the website and reading related blogs all the time. (Now, in my defense, I sent him to a couple summer programs at CMU over the last couple years, but they didn't seem to have a significant effect on him, quite the opposite, he came home repeating all the negatives that the students had to say about CMU.)</p>
<p>Maybe part of this is the 'only child' syndrome. If he would have had older siblings to watch go through this process perhaps there would have been a little more interest or goal-orientation.</p>
<p>So my question is whether transfers to top-tier schools happen during the undergraduate years. Or do 'late bloomer' students tend to stick it out at the chosen college and then move to a more challenging graduate school?</p>
<p>Let me get this straight..........you think because he has an interest now that he is going to suddenly change is studying habits? He might be better waiting for graduate school. Transfers do happen all the time.</p>
<p>I can't speak for the other schools, really, but I think MIT accepts maybe 5-10 transfers each year out of hundreds of applicants. If this PARTICULAR school is what he's after, he's MUCH better off applying for freshman admission- granted he's not already in college?</p>
<p>It's not as though the schools he's looking at are un-challenging. Yes, transfers happen. And he can try that, if he still cares once he's attending somewhere. Similarly, going to a most selective grad school is an option - either directly from college or after some time beginning his career.</p>
<p>Have you ruled out getting the app in to one or more of these new dream schools and taking the SATIIs in time to get them into his file? That may be impossible, but I'm gathering that it's the lack of SATIIs/lesser SATIs than he's capable of which is the sticking point? I'm out of the loop, but perhaps some January test dates could work?</p>
<p>I agree with jmmom that schools like RPI & GaTech are very challenging. I know very bright students who choose these colleges because of merit $ &/or location.S can receive an excellent education. IF he decides on an advanced degree, he will be enthusiastic and knowledgeable.
I think I hear guilt about the only child syndrome. You did expose S to summer college programs, but that didn't excite him. Also, he had friends taking SAT II's, but he chose not to. I'm sure some of his friends strived for best GPA over all 3 1/2 years of HS. Just because S liked MIT does not mean he would want to attend there and work as diligently as the typical MIT student. Is your S truly interested in MIT now? If so, he can call and discuss possibilities.</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses. I guess I have to say that I've always been frustrated with the seeming waste of potential with this child. And it's interesting to see him start to express some interest. A lot of his interest is based on the 'coolness' factors and the 'best' mentality. I think that perhaps the thought that he could be involved with some leading edge development and top-notch students is enticing to him. E.g. the fact that Google is setting up some sort of development center at CMU.</p>
<p>What I see is excitement about these two schools in particular, and little excitement so far about the schools that he's applied to. But I don't believe that even if he took SAT IIs and retook the SAT that he'd get in at this point. There's a little issue of GPA. THe first two years were mediocre, last year it went up, this year he's getting A's in AP classes, but that doesn't overcome the issue that these schools would have with the rest of the grades.</p>
<p>I'm hoping that he goes to one of the schools that he's been accepted to and finds the level of excitement about an academic / research area that he thinks he sees at these two schools. That's where my original question comes in. I don't know how good these schools are for providing him the opportunity to really get engaged. (Of course, he needs to do his part.) If he just doesn't find it at the school he ends up at, I'm wondering about transfer potential. </p>
<p>Guilt? I think I'm past that, I've done what I could. But if he's ready to pursue something more, that's up to him.</p>
<p>apple17....I'd let it be.....of the schools you listed, UIUC and GaTech in particular have outstanding technical/engineering programs, and are in fact leaders in the field. USNEWs (OK, don't berate me here, but I think this is helpful) ranks UIUC as #4 and GaTech as #6 for undergraduate engineering programs at PhD-granting universities. RPI is not too far behind at #18. UIUC is only beat by MIT of course, Stanford & Berkely, and tied with CalTech....so these schools your son has been accepted to are no slouches. [CMU is ranked #8.] Yes, CMU and MIT are more "selective" based upon their acceptance rates, but these other schools would provide, IMO, a fantastic technical education and have plenty going on from an intellectual & research standpoint.</p>
<p>I firmly believe that boys (especially), once the light bulb goes on and they see what it takes to get into a specific school, will all of a sudden focus and change their habits and show their true potential.</p>
<p>What I might be very tempted to do ... if you think that this kid could really blossom, bloom and light up like a house 'afire ... is to give him an additional prep school year. Have him do the SATs again this spring, apply to a top notch prep school for a PG year, and go really light up the boards as a PG ... and re-apply to colleges in a year.</p>
<p>I will grant this is an expensive option -- although my personal opinion is that the PG year is an insurance policy about making it through the next four years.</p>
<p>reading the above the phrase <em>GAP YEAR</em> began flashing neon red in my mind...</p>
<p>IF he wants to-- he can accept the offer of admission at the best school he's admitted to, defer for a year, and buckle down in some other related way (volunteer research, etc) and reapply to higher tier schools for next fall.</p>
<p>Apple, your son sounds a lot like our DS. He to made sure all his assigned work was done but did very little studying for tests because grades were not important to him. And he too took the SAT1 only once and refused to take any SAT2's. He was accepted to every college he applied to including RPI, Case and Oberlin.</p>
<p>He is currently a soph at RPI and his entire attitude has changed. He is enjoying college life, seems quite excited about academics for the first time and is doing better than we had expected in quite a few ways. Not surprisingly, having the opportunity to live off campus with 10 other students has been a real growing experience for him too and he has become quite creative in the kitchen when it is his turn to cook dinner.</p>
<p>Certainly a student can transfer as an undergrad but surprisingly few choose to do so. The OP does not indicate whether your son's attitudes or work habits have changed in recent months. In any event, I am certain that he can be academically challenged at any of the universities he has applied to. I know my son has and enrolled in a dual degree program in artifical intelligence combining his interest in computer science with a new found interest in cognitive science.</p>
<p>A few days ago my son was complaining that maybe he should have gone to RPI instead of MIT because "they have more hands-on programs there instead of all this theory." (He had a tough semester with two very theoretical courses he didn't enjoy.) Don't get down on RPI; they do an excellent job. (My H went there; I know many current students there. And the Dean of Engineering has come to visit a few times.)</p>
<p>This is great insight, providing some great ideas for us to mull over. It provides some perspective that isn't available in our local world. We'll have to think about the 'gap year' concept. I had seen that mentioned elsewhere, but never thought about it in the manner suggested above.</p>
<p>It's reassuring to hear that kids at the schools that he's accepted at are thriving there. I think that if my S gets in with a good group of students and hopefully finds a professor or two he can relate to, he'll really blossom. Dmd77, I can relate to your post because I think a lot of what attracts my son to what he sees at the 'dream schools' is the real-world applications, the creative, intelligent kids in interesting study areas, applying themselves to problems and coming up with ideas. (oh, and not getting made fun of for it...) </p>
<p>Hopefully by May we can identify a school that he is excited about among the acceptances in hand. Perhaps if he goes and spends an overnight at a couple as well? </p>
<p>don't encourage anyone to think that transferring into MIT is a realistic plan. I looked up the admit rate for transfers during a recent year when they only accepted 3 tranfsers out of several hundred who applied. They have been overenrolled for the past 3 years, so they don't need warm bodies. They are only going to accept a transfer who is so extraordinary that they are essentially unique compared to the students that are already there.</p>
<p>I think the OP's son has two choices - go to one of the superb colleges that have already accepted him, or take a gap year and reapply as a freshman. Note, he cannot defer his admission to one of the schools that has already accepted him and spend that year taking college courses. That is prohibited by almost every college that allows students to defer for a year.</p>
<p>Realistically, MIT and CMU SCS both like to see four years of extremely strong performance - unless something else pretty snazzy is in the application. If you can stand to read the early results threads for these schools without cringing too much, you will get a feel for this. </p>
<p>My suggestion is to let your son do as many accepted student overnights as can be scheduled. He has excellent schools on his list, and the more he knows about them, the better choice he can make. It is frustrating to see your one and only wake up and smell the coffee a little late ... but he sounds strong and healthy - and there is always grad school.</p>
<p>Getting to one of your original questions about transfer: others have said transferring into MIT is nearly impossible. I checked for CMU and it's not so impossible but tough, for '04 rate was just 14.5%, I'd imagine nearly impossible for CS. Not sure if your son is interested in CS, engineering or both (or neither). </p>
<p>As a CMU-SCS parent I can't say enough good things about the school; but those schools your S has been accepted to also are outstanding. Since the workload at these types of schools can border on the ridiculous, he ought to make friends soon and easily (group learning) with smart kids serious about their studies, or else they wouldn't be at these schools studying what they are. </p>
<p>As far as a gap year...good idea if he hasn't gotten into any acceptable schools or maybe if he's unsure about college now...neither of which seems to apply to your son. Once the application procedure is closed there's bound to be buyer's remorse, but your son has some great options.</p>
<p>2331clk, one of the things that has happened this year is the 'group learning'. My S has ended up in a small group of kids in the AP classes together that seems to understand the study group concept. Three of the kids in the group are the ones that went to MIT together. I don't know whether it's a case of him finally being in a (maturity) place to start to thrive or whether the situation has sparked him. </p>
<p>I smiled when I read 'buyers remorse'. There are many emotions (unfortunately) that accompany this process. I know that whatever school he goes to is getting a great young man. He's much more that just a 'bright mind'. I just hope for a good fit and a good place for him to thrive and position himself for a great (rewarding and happy) career. In my position as 'mother' I wonder how much is 'prestige' and how much is 'opportunity' when looking at these schools. I'd like to be able to bypass the 'prestige', it certainly permeates many of the discussions of parents and community here.</p>
<p>Ok, enough of my tangent. </p>
<p>What I see regarding the original post is 'forget about transferring to MIT', '<em>maybe</em> one could transfer to CMU with a stellar record', and 'hopefully he thrives wherever he starts his college career'.</p>
<p>apple17, my opinion is those schools ARE prestigious in the eyes of the job recruiter or grad school admissions counselor (which is what really matters). If he does well at one of those schools he'll absolutely have plenty of terrific opportunities.</p>
<p>Also concerning the 3 friends who I presume applied to MIT...I wish them luck but don't forget they aren't in yet. Each only has a 1 in 8 or 10 chance of getting in let alone all 3. See where they end up...they may be your son's classmate at GaTech or RPI.</p>
<p>apple....much as you want to accelerate his ambition, it is probably going to move at it's own speed and that speed is adjusted to the schools where he's been accepted. If you think the past year has been amazing, wait until you see the shift between freshman and sophomore year. </p>
<p>He's not going to waste potential at UIUC or RPI. He's going to get a great education. Those schools might not have the same prestige factor as MIT, but they are full of bright, interesting, creative students and amazing professors.</p>
<p>If he wants more prestige, he will have to chase it for graduate school (operative words, mom: if HE wants more prestige ;)).</p>