Trying to build an affordable college list for unusual possible majors is hard...

Parents Forum
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<p>If it is spring of 11th grade, it is not too late for him to start on a portfolio. But I think he will find out pretty quickly if he’s into this, or if he’d rather do computers. And it’s ok to find out, right?</p>

<p>I am personally more familiar with the portfolio requirements for architecture and interior design. The uninitiated are often surprised that you really do have to be able to sketch, and paint, and sculpt, to get into those programs. They say “but it’s all done on the computer!” It is – eventually, in actual practice. But you have to qualify by doing the work by hand at first. I liken it to the role that organic chemistry plays in the development of medical doctors. The doctor doesn’t do organic chemistry problems when you come in for a visit. But if she hadn’t done them well in college, she wouldn’t have been allowed to become a doctor. </p>

<p>It may be sort of an archaic, “separate the men from the boys” gatekeeping requirement. But I have heard interior design faculty argue that it’s more. Working by hand, they say, develops the eye and the brain in a way that cannot otherwise be done. This is why many of the programs still start with a year of hand drafting or model assembly. They don’t want to pick kids on the basis of how well they used software. That will come later, once they’ve proven that they can initiate and develop their own visual ideas. And there’s still no substitute, as a working designer, for being able to communicate effectively with a coworker or client by making a quick, clear, artful sketch.</p>

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<p>Very true, fieldsports!</p>

<p>He took architectural drafting and enjoyed it, but found it tedious because <em>everything</em> was writing by hand in that drafting hand writing. He loved the sketching but the handwriting got monotonous. </p>

<p>So, according to this page</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.csulb.edu/depts/design/CSULB_DESN/Department_of_Design___BS_Industrial_Design___Home.html”>https://www.csulb.edu/depts/design/CSULB_DESN/Department_of_Design___BS_Industrial_Design___Home.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>a program like this doesn’t require a portfolio to get into the school or program, because apparently, you will be building a portfolio in your first two years in order to apply and get accepted into the junior and senior level studio courses, is that a correct understanding?</p>

<p>Should he just email each program and ask to be directed to the portfolio requirements? (That’s the lazy but easier way)</p>

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<p>He may be better served in the long run by getting a liberal arts degree and saving the job related coursework for grad school.</p>

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<p>OP, as you correctly note, some programs (with or without portfolio requirements on admission) do not promise seats in the upper level undergrad (junior and senior year) program to 12th graders. They admit 12th graders to the freshman part of the program. Again, I have looked at interior design more closely, not industrial, but some programs have a “cut” that the kids have to make at the end of freshman or sophomore year of college, to continue on and finish the bachelor’s in that major. They usually say that those who do not make the cut will be counseled by their advisor into other majors that they could pursue at the university. Woe to the kid who does not want to relinquish his or her dream so quickly, and wishes at that time that she or he had simply enrolled elsewhere.</p>

<p>That very specialized aspect is a little scary to me as a parent, in terms of planning and budgeting. The course work is so specialized, that although the first two years of it would undoubtedly count as raw college credit, it would not check off many of the curricular boxes toward completion of other majors. I guess if the kid really doesn’t have “it” (whatever “it” is), and the professors can tell, I’d rather be counseled out of the program instead of finishing the bachelor’s and never being able to make a living at it. But I’m personally more comfortable, as a parent, with programs that might screen hard for talent in 12th grade, and then let you into the full program from day 1 (assuming successful completion of each course, which would be needed in any major.) </p>

<p>For interior design, and probably industrial, I feel like it’s one of those “calling” programs – like nursing – where you have to know it’s for you, and that you have what it takes, before you start, and you accept that it will be fairly disruptive to change majors along the way. In a bachelor of arts program, switching your major from psychology to English, for example, or chemistry to biology, can be pretty easy, even at the end of sophomore year. It can usually be done without taking extra time and money for school. But a design major cannot go too far along the curricular path, and then change majors, without needing additional time for the new major. It can almost be like starting over.</p>

<p>Coming from the other direction, if you started with a general liberal arts curriculum, and then decided “yes, I really do want to be a design major”, you would be starting almost from scratch. The courses are tightly sequenced. That is where a bigger program might offer more flexibility, especially for a kid with medical issues, if there’s any doubt about his ability to sustain a full course load every semester. A small program might only offer some required courses every other spring or every other fall. If you miss anything, you might have to take a year off (and have loans come due) while waiting to get back onto the sequence. A big program might run every required course almost every semester.</p>

<p>I guess if the kid is not sure, or decides very late in the game to pursue design, starting with a non-portfolio program would give that person the chance to get into the studio and find out. But at the end of freshman year, if it became evident that another major should be chosen, I’d probably expect to have to lose at least a semester’s worth of progress toward any degree. One could check this out closely, of course, knowing that the degree requirements in the other Plan B majors might also change while you’re working on the design major.</p>

<p>About checking the portfolio requirements – they’re all spelled out pretty clearly on the school websites. I think to email and ask would probably just invite the response of “please check the website”.</p>

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<p>If he takes a gap year, he should not take any college level classes, as that would make him a transfer student. Most merit scholarships are for entering freshmen only. </p>

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<p>My niece was just accepted to Western Washington and from what they have said she received a very generous merit award from them. She is also Ca resident and her grades and test scores were not in the range of your son.</p>

<p>My concern about the Math for computer science at a UC is that those classes are very competitive. One of mine attends a UC and the Calculus even in the non math major class is very difficult for someone who has a Math disability unless you can get him the accommodation of use of a calculator. Use the Assist website and see what Math is needed and see if he can take the equivalent during his senior year when he has more support. </p>

<p>Attending a C C. Since your S will already have a good number of CC units by the end of the senior year you are probably only saving one year of tuition and shutting him out of many of the merit awards that are not awarded to transfer students.</p>

<p>One of my kids attended Purdue. It is easy to fly to Indianapolis from southern Ca. Cost of living is extremely low which helps. She was a transfer and did get some scholarship money. Her last year she was considered independent and they gave her a very generous aid package with no loans. Not sure how it works for a freshman. The nice thing is that the school has a lot of majors if he finds he wants something different.</p>

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<p>Western Washington is unlikely to give enough to make it affordable based on a 5k EFC - My D has stats in that range - higher GPA (4.0 unweighted), National AP Scholar and IB diploma and received something like 3k per year for 2 years so 6k total over 4 years. That barely touches in state tuition let alone room and board. A very qualified OOS candidate might receive enough merit $$$ to bring tuition closer to in state levels (generous by some standards) but it is still unlikely to fit the bill as non-resident COA is about 33k and resident COA is a bit over 22k. 10k per year in “merit” aid still wouldn’t even bring it down to in state tuition levels.</p>

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<p>You make a very good point about attending CC. Many homeschoolers around here just go the CC route. Particularly, homeschool families that are well off and whose kids may not have super great test scores. For them, transferring makes total sense. For us, if we can find scholarships or schools with lots of need-based aid, that would be the preferred way to go for my son. He really loved his visit to MIT and saw what a college community can be like and I think he wants that sense of community. He really wants to find some kids who share his interests. He’s found that in his small, selective solo orchestra. Musicians are kindred spirits in one regard. I think he’d like to find that in the area of creativity and design.</p>

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<p>Saint fan - was your D eligible for WUE at Western Washington? My D several years ago was awarded a fairly generous Merit scholarship from them. In my nieces case I heard 25000. I thought it was per year but it could very well be over 4.</p>

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<p>Didn’t you say he was already taking some CC classes? </p>

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<p>Yes he is, TempeMom. I think what Mom60 meant was if my son decided to just start full time at the CC and then transfer to a college, he would then miss out on potential scholarships. He may well have around 40 units, depending on how many he takes each semester in senior year.</p>

<p>Here’s the other thing. He came out of his physics test today and said, “Physics is so satisfying because it’s applied.” He’s <em>really</em> enjoying it and yes, he can use a calculator. He works hard but it’s so satisfying to him when he completes problems.</p>

<p>I guess one more question I have off the topic of college choice is when to get him retested for his math disability. He was last tested at age 12, I think, and that’s when it showed the huge discrepancy between reasoning and calculation ability. He was going to take pre-calc this spring but got freaked out because the prof told him they would have to take tests without a calculator. Right now, he only has time and a half for accommodations. I guess if the retest shows the same gap, he can ask the college for calculator use for all science/math classes. (Or is that even an allowable accommodation?)</p>

<p>I think he could do most majors as long as he can use the calculator for stuff he just can’t do in his head.</p>

<p>At any rate, Western Wa. sounds like, even with the WUE, it might not work. I <em>really</em> am not looking at his taking on much debt. I could see <em>maybe</em> 10k over 4 years, but nothing beyond that unless he did really go into a STEM major. Debt scares my dh even more than it does me, probably because his earning power is so limited. (No degree and no experience except driving for 25 years and cooking before that)</p>

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<p>Definitely research the course requirements for similar majors in the fields he is interested in. Most math does not involve much arithmetic. He will find every major has its tedious aspects, just as every job does. One chooses a career based on how tolerable the least favorite parts are. Eons ago we never had simple calculators, much less sophisticated scientific graphing calculators. Exams were problem solving as in showing how to get an answer, they were not a test of how quickly one could add, subtract, multiply or divide large numbers. Much more abstract. Often professors won’t allow calculators as they want to test the thought process and not plugging numbers into a machine that then does it for you.</p>

<p>Consider having your son take aptitude and interest tests through the CC he is enrolled at. This was free at my public U and I’m sure they are prepared for career advising at your CC. Make use of this- you and he may be surprised at what shows up. This could help in choosing colleges with potential majors. </p>

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<p>We are in state so no WUE - if it was truly 25k it had to have been over 4 years (or possibly 25 over 2 years so 12 per year) so 6,250 per year so remaining OOS tuition of about 12k. WWU sends several letters - the first is all congratulatory and WOW you’ve earned great merit money then the other shoe drops and it’s hardly anything and not that amount every year for 4 years but just for 1 or 2 years. </p>

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<p>Great idea, wis75. He actually has a meeting with his disability advisor tomorrow and he can ask about opportunities for aptitude testing. He actually really likes those kinds of tests. He’s done some free online inventories and has had some very interesting results for careers: Military tactician, stone mason, electrical engineer, camera operator, musician, aerospace engineer, the arts, and the varied list goes on. Building careers came out high interest; thinking careers came out with moderate interest, but each test asks different questions and has limits, I suppose.</p>

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<p>Remember that aptitude and interest are two different things. Different tests will test different things. I remember taking an interest test that essentially tested if you had a lot in common with those in a given field. Being grouped with HS science teachers did not mean I was interested in that career (I was a Chemistry major). Being great in economics did not mean I liked it. In the ensuing decades I’m sure more tests have been developed. Formal testing will likely be much more valid than online inventories.</p>

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<p>Just a thought about Industrial Design, it is a field that requires super long hours in the studio… make sure this is OK with your son.</p>

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<p>Well, I know he can play video games for a super long time! LOL Seriously, his animation class is three hours and that goes by quickly but yes, I think the long hours would be something to discuss. He can play music for many hours at a time, but every day? Not sure. So long hours in the studio every day? Not sure. He was very exhausted after the three day robotics tournament-up every day at 5:45 and going until 8 pm and falling asleep around 10 or 11. To do that on a regular basis would be impossible. </p>

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<p>Logic will serve him well if he takes more advanced math. Indeed, it sounds like it is possible that he may like proof-based advanced math better than math focused on computation. Most students find computational math easier than proofs, but there is a possibility that your son is the opposite.</p>

<p>Sometimes, a school may offer linear algebra differently. Examples:

  • with or without differential equations (this combination is common at semester system schools)
  • regular or honors (honors would be more focused on proofs)
  • special version for engineering or economics majors (usually considered “easier” than the one for math majors, but is typically more computation focused rather than proof focused)</p>

<p>Discrete math is typically only taken by math and CS majors; there may be special versions for each major. Either way, it tends to include instruction on mathematical proofs.</p>

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<p>I work with industrial designers daily and my older daughter is a junior in architecture. The hours during college are similar and the studio experience is fairly similar… It is pretty brutal no matter where you are. </p>

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<p>My son said yes, he could see himself working in a studio all day.</p>

<p>I’m going through all the schools to see which have portfolio requirements. My son looked at USC’s, both their interactive media as well as their animation. He thought the interactive media was a pretty extensive application, more so than animation, but doable.</p>

<p>Since Common App schools no longer have an automatic arts supplement, is there any way to share a portfolio with a school like CMC?</p>