Trying to Figure Things Out

At the moment, I am still in the middle of applying to schools. I am not in the process of deciding between schools yet.

Recently, I have had a bit of a internal struggle take place. I love Minnesota. It is everything I want in a school. It is a springboard to get out and go anywhere. It is respected in the field I want to go into, and if I decide to change, it is big enough that it would likely have that field and be good in it. The problem is it’s going to cost some money on my part. It would almost invariably require student loans to do. But it is everything I want.

On the other hand, I found out that if you are an in-state student in North Dakota and your ACT score falls in or above the 95th percentile, you qualify for a state scholarship equal to your tuition. My score, a 30, falls in that range. However, both UND and NDSU are the antithesis of Minnesota. I don’t like them. I really don’t. They are very STEM, Agriculture, and Engineering focused, which is something I do not like, and only do well in a few fields.

At the moment, I plan on majoring in Marketing, with a possible minor in Sociology or US History. Minnesota’s good at those, and plenty of others where if I choose to change my major it would still be a good degree. And if I decided to go to grad school, Minnesota is at least respected enough to help me get to most places.

And what I’m looking for in a campus environment really isn’t all that ridiculous.

  1. Not Rural - I really just want to be a part of the world, in a cool and awesome place. In North Dakota, you are so removed from everything. We still don't even have most major phone carriers anywhere outside of Fargo, and things like Uber don't exist out here. Grand Forks doesn't even have a Barnes & Noble. And Fargo is, well, it's Fargo.
  2. FBS Football - This one does need explaining. It is important to me. I have grown up a fan, with no other fans around. I follow it closely, and it is something I am very passionate about. I desperately want to be apart of a rowdy and wild student section, in a giant stadium, surrounded by peers, and alumni, people who try to make their alma mater look good, not embarrass it. I prefer it to professional football because most fans were accepted by who they cheer for, not the other way around. The closest I've ever had to it was a North Carolina @ ECU game about a decade ago when we lived in North Carolina. And my mother has these stories of Jack Trice Stadium and Memorial Stadium in Lincoln that only further make me want to be a part of that world. And Minnesota has just that. College Hockey or NDSU football just does not compare, even with mediocre P5 football.
  3. Non-Male Skewed Gender Ratio (49%>) - I really don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of guys in college. Both UND and NDSU are very heavily skewed towards guys. Something along the lines of a 55-45 percentage split.
  4. A More Liberal Political Climate Than North Dakota - I have lived in this state most of my life and I am just about sick of being a minority here. I resent that our state's politics have let oil companies do whatever the hell they want and somehow lost a $2 Billion budget surplus in 5 years. And I'm sick of being surrounded by backwoods racists and rednecks. I'm sorry if this really comes across as arrogant, I really am. But I want my political activism to stop making me a target for ridicule by morons.

But I have to pay to get those things. It’s significantly cheaper and more affordable to the in-state, lower quality schools. My internal dilemma boils down to Happiness or Fiscal Responsibility.

I am all ears for anything good about UND or NDSU that isn’t just “It’s cheap.” I want to know why I would actually want to like my time there. I probably seem like someone who just wants an opinion validated. But I wouldn’t post or ask if I really didn’t want any advice.

What can your family afford?
I’ve seen you ask about financial aid, but I don’t see an exact number.

This is can be avhieved at hundreds of colleges.

Wrong. These two things are not mutually exclusive.

The two things that are shouting out in your original post are:

  1. you want out of North Dakota, and
  2. you need money.

You can’t have #1 without #2, so you need to focus on #2. Being more flexible about the requirement for an urban campus will widen the possibilities of achieving #2. Be PRAGMATIC.

Looking further afield than your adjacent state will get your application more notice. Many schools value geographic diversity, and if the school is in a more distant state, then the school is unlikely to get many applicants from your state. Your uncommon state of residency could give you a small admissions boost.

Your life’s objectives can be achieved at many schools. Do NOT apply to any school that is CLEARLY unaffordable (use the school’s Net Price Calculator) to get a cost estimate.

And do NOT fall in love with any school until AFTER you’ve been admitted.

I don’t have an exact estimate. I do know that they said they’ll cover basic expenses like textbooks, a laptop, things like that. Massive amounts of tuition? Not so much. For some reason, giving out a number on the internet makes me a bit uncomfortable.

You need to have a conversation with your parents about how much they are willing to pay per year. Have them fill out the Net Price Calculator on the college’s website to get an estimate of what that school will cost for your family. Then see if that cost is in line with their spending expectations.

There is a limit to how much you can borrow per year on your own in federal student loans. Above that amount, you’ll have to take out private loans. Private loans will require an adult co-signer-- meaning those loans are also the co-signer’s debt.

I’m an incoming college freshman, and my books have costed $300. My used MacBook was $250. This is nothing competed to tuition & room/board, unfortunately. If you go farther, you’ll also need to add in the cost of flights.

If you need financial aid, look into privates, not out-of-state publics. Although North Dakota’s publics aren’t the best, they are quite affordable. Even if you don’t “love” your four years, it’s much better than spending 20/30/40 years in debt!

I know it may seem odd disclosing financial information to strangers, but we’re only here to help! We see too many students who don’t have the financial talk, and end up without affordable options come spring.

Adding to @PrimeMeridian’s excellent post…You can only borrow $5500/year. If your parents can only contribute for books and a laptop, you need a lot of aid. Ask them how much they can contribute.

Run the Fafsa4caster to get an estimate of your EFC. Will you be eligible for a Pell grant? Run each school’s Net Price Calculator and if a college is unaffordable, don’t apply there. Check the guaranteed merit thread (posted at the top of the financial aid forum) to see if you qualify for any merit aid. Study for the ACT and retake it. If you can get it to a 32, you’ll have more options.

Wait, were you not the ND kid whose mom came on the board saying that you wouldn’t be eligible for financial aid even though your parents can’t help you out with tuition costs?

If that’s the case, and they won’t co-sign extra loans for you, you are limited to what you can pay for via merit aid, your $5,500 direct loan, and any savings or earnings that you have.

For NDSU, the fees (I assume these are not included in your tuition waiver as they aren’t mentioned), room and meal plan come to $9321, so subtracting off your direct loan you’re almost $4000 short for freshman year, not accounting for books, travel and personal expenses. UND is a little lower for room and board but doesn’t break out fees vs tuition, so I’m guessing it would still be short by around that amount. Where is that money going to come from?

If you’re looking for out of state merit, a 3.5 GPA and 30 ACT doesn’t give you a lot of options if you need tuition plus: automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com
A quick scan shows full rides at Prairie View A&M and Florida A&M with your stats. They’re HBCU so they’d be pretty different from ND, at least.

Are you legacy at U Nebraska? You may be eligible for a scholarship there.

You need to run the net price calculators for UMinn and the ND publics. Figure out how much you need to pay and if your parents can come up with any money or co-sign a loan. Do the same for any admissions safety you like better than the ND schools.

To me, your options are

  1. Go to UMinn (if admitted), parents will need to co-sign loan. The downside to this is obviously the increased debt.
  2. Go to whichever of the ND publics you dislike least (parents will need to come up with ~$5000 per year or co-sign loan), aim for graduate school at UMinn, concentrate on being a big fish in a small pond. Look into Honors colleges/programs, opportunities for research and internships, opportunities to study abroad, anything else that will allow you to graduate standing out from the pack. Then when you're 22 you can leave North Dakota behind forever.
  3. Look for out of state big merit aid. You should re-take the ACT to try to get a 32 to give you more options for this. And remember that even with full tuition you still need to come up with money for room, board and other costs.

We have family with kids who have all gone through NDSU. They go there because it is affordable. One graduated debt free and is starting medical school with zero undergrad debt. The one kid who briefly broke away to go to U of M has cost his parents $55,000 in Parent Plus loans. He insisted on going there because it was the best for his degree and now he and his parents are paying the price (he is helping pay back the $$).

I get why you want to leave the state. My own kid is the same way about our state and the whole “I want to start over in a different state” mentality is very prevalent. We get it. You are ready for an adventure and something different.

Have you even visited NDSU? Have you seen the student clubs and organizations that are there for you to get involved in? Or is this a pre-conceived idea you have of the rednecks and such? I’ve been on the campus and was impressed by a lot of things and was not overwhelmed with the rednecks.

Here is what I tell my own kid who wants desperately to be in a different state for college: If it doesn’t work out financially, know that there are going to be MANY times in your life when you have to grow up and make the best decision for financial reasons. Heck, I would love to move right now to the mountains of NC. But you know what? I can’t…because our jobs are here in our state and we can’t move right now. It is what it is. So I have chosen to make the best of it and embrace the positive things about life in our area. I would NEVER borrow thousands of dollars to move just because it was my “dream.” I would earn it first.

For football: have you BEEN to a NDSU football game? OMG…I’m an Aggie and honestly we have nothing on NDSU football fans. Those crazy fans DRIVE to Frisco every year when their team makes the division championship. The alumni pockets and support run DEEP for that school.

For MN being everything ND is not: you’ve got to be kidding me. We visit every year and I honestly cannot tell where MN starts and ND starts. It is the same.

Go to NDSU. Make the best of it. Join some fun clubs, be an ambassador for your school, get your degree and THEN move to where you want to live and finance your own experience.

lcb56787, there’s another North Dakota person on here? I didn’t know that. What happened?

I am not a legacy at Nebraska. Only people in my family who went there were my aunt who died of cancer and my great aunt and uncle.

Carachel2, I don’t think you’ve been to North Dakota. If you had, the Cities would be like a completely different planet in comparison. That’s what they are like to me.

And yeah, I’ve visited NDSU and UND. This “pre-concieved notion of rednecks and such” comes from actually seeing the place, staying in those dorms for state FFA and other conventions, and going to high school with or knowing a lot of students there.

@stuckinND69, iirc it was a few months ago and the kid was a rising senior, so nothing would have happened yet. Maybe I’m confusing things with one of your previous posts, anyway.

Did you run NPCs for the ND schools and U Minn? Do any of them give you financial aid over and above your ND tuition waiver? What does the difference in the total come to? Your parents might agree to co-sign for 5K a year of debt for UND, but not 25K of debt for UMinn, for example. Then the decision of “happiness vs fiscal responsibility” would be out of your hands.

Do you know yet about reciprocity at the UMN for North Dakota residents? ND residents are charged MN-resident rates:

https://onestop.umn.edu/finances/costs_and_tuition/tuition_and_fees/reciprocity/

With your gpa & ACT you’d likely get a$14,500 per yr. scholarship from Nebraska.

Twin Cities is vastly different than Fargo or Grand Forks.

Lincoln isn’t that much different.

What other states does ND have reciprocity with? Sioux Falls, SD is a really cool small city that is growing like crazy and has Augustana, which seems a good fit for what you want to study. Might want to run the NPC’s for Auggie.

Good luck!