My daughter’s first choice is Rice, but there are a couple things about Vanderbilt that I think make it a better match. Their swimming, while still Division 1, is slightly slower than Rice which improves her chances of being sought for recruitment. Second, their financial aid is reputed to be more generous than Rice.
I feel the schools are similar in size and reputation though Rice is probably better for engineering, which is going to be her field of study.
But she is going off stereotypes saying when she thinks of “Vandy” ( honestly I think this nickname even turns her off) she thinks of Simply Southern t-shirts, girls who dress up for class and wear make up, people who are into football culture, people into Greek life. I get this stereotype come from some reality but I also wonder if a smart nerdy swimmer who’s hair is always wet and in a bun, who has never attended a party with alcohol, by her own choice, in high school, and who mainly hangs with her engineering academy and church friends socially when she isn’t studying and swimming 20+ hours a week can find her place and be happy at Vanderbilt.
She is very interested in swimming. Rice and University of New Mexico (because of the full ride National Merit scholarship) are the two division 1 schools she has done the recruiting questionnaire for and written the coaches. The others have been Division 3: MIT, Tufts, NYU (probably not a good fit but she has been responding to contact initiated by the coach). Other division 2/3 coaches that have been talking to her are from schools without real engineering programs such as Grinnel, St Olaf’s, etc.
Other schools in consideration are Harvey Mudd, Carnegie Mellon, CalTech, Colorado School of Mines. But financial aid will be very important, especially at a Div 3 school.
I feel like Vanderbilt is the sweet spot in the athletic/academic/aid trifecta and that there have to be others there like her that she will find if she goes there. After all, she isn’t like most of the girls in her high school either and she has loved her high school experience!
If you want your daughter to apply to Vanderbilt, then she should–but the ultimate decision, in my opinion, needs to be made by your daughter so long as her choices match her intellectual & career prep goals.
Go take a look so your daughter can get a sense of the vibe of the school. It is hardly the southern school most think.
It is a national university in an up and coming city. Also lots of very serious students based on nothing more than what it takes to get in. 33-35act 50%.
Yes, agree with above poster. You need to have your daughter take a look. I am not sure what year she is…but maybe reach out to the coach before you go. It is not really the sterotypical southern school that you describe (dressing up and makeup)…but yes, football games, sorority and frats are somewhat part of the culture. However, the vibe there is very very smart kids that work hard and play hard. One does not have to party to be apart of Vandy. There are many church/religious groups that exist and I am sure that your daughter would find like minded friends in a freshman class of 1700! Go check it out
Compared to Rice there will obviously be social differences (SEC vs. conference USA sports, greeklife vs. no greeklife, etc.) but on a campus with ~6500 people, all types of personalities and interests are represented. I feel like a lot of high school kids base their expectations of university social life on their current experience, where there can be a well-defined social atmosphere that everyone is forced to interact with. This really isn’t the case in college in my experience. There are certainly kids in greek life who are going out five nights a week, but there are also plenty of friend groups of engineers who stay in, and besides the first week or so when people are in orientation groups, these two types of people will never interact if they don’t want to.
This doesn’t mean that all institutions are identical, but I feel like it only matters on the extreme edges of the spectrum (i.e. if you want a super intellectual school untainted by pre-professional students where most kids spend their Friday night discussing 19th century continental philosophy, Vanderbilt might not be the best school for you. If you’re a future fratstar and want a place that’s academically rigorous but with a more laid-back peer atmosphere and opportunities for more a more traditional/quintessential well-rounded “college experience” Vanderbilt might serve your interest more than the aforementioned ivory tower.)
The stereotype of Vanderbilt as a sort of privileged, non-intellectual finishing school for the pearl-clutching, boat shoe-wearing southern aristocracy seems to be derived from the Nashville setting combined with population that the school once appealed to. The school is now recruiting from the same generic national base that populates all of the T10-T20 rank schools, while the administration is in the process of slowly suffocating greek life to death while building their own system of residential colleges (one’s already opened, one will open in fall 2018, and then future colleges will follow in 2020, 2022, and 2023). Opinions/perceptions offered by those who haven’t visited and don’t have any experience with the school are worthless, because they are often influenced by the outdated context.
I’d say the big differences between Rice and Vanderbilt worth considering are the residential college system, school size (Rice is a lot smaller), what campus/city you prefer (Houston is way bigger and more of an international city), some differences in atmosphere (you’ll find your niche at Vanderbilt but I think Rice celebrates its nerdiness a bit more + 0 greek life scene). You also might just try to extend some feelers regarding recruiting - if you only get interest from one coach and she really wants to swim, that makes an easy choice. I know you’re probably aware, and the issue is convincing her to even extend feelers to a school that she’s skeptical about; honestly you’ll just have to visit campus, and even that may not work. Sometimes people form an early impression on a school and just won’t be convinced otherwise (even if this impression is arbitrary/not objective truth), and there’s not much that can change their mind.
No question Rice is the right school for her. But their swim team has gotten very fast since we first started tracking their times Freshman year. Her times from last year would have put her in their mix then. Now, as a junior, she has all her eggs in the spring sectionals basket hoping to get some times that get her a look. That is a lot of pressure. She has done all she can for admittance and i think she has as good a shot there as anyone with the understanding that it doesn’t mean she will get in, but this swim thing is feeling heavy. She is facing the possible question of giving up competing in the sport she loves (I question how she could survive without it) for the school she loves. Plus NPC is lower at Vanderbilt. If it all came together at Rice we would probably find a way to make it work.
We have visited Rice and it just solidified its spot on the pedestal she has placed it on. Some of these we won’t be able to see until recruiting trips or if she can get selected for some of the fly in programs. I love how EFC acts like you have all this money laying around, but with a high level swimmer and her training, gear and travel trips, plus a high level ballet student with her training and pointe shoes, we spend close to $20,000 a year on their activities so we don’t have tons of extra travel funds.
Todays VU is not her mama’s VU. They have a diverse class similar to other top 20’s.
Stereotypes are often not true.
Make a vacation out of a visit.
They have a similar mix of well funded students as other top 20 U’s.
Their students consistently rank among the happiest in the nation and report one of the best overall quality of life scores in the county. They get to live in Nashville.
Does she enjoy music?
No matter how well qualified she is she MUST cast a wide net when starting to apply to colleges. There are no sure bets when it comes to getting accepted into a top 15 ranked U.
She can’t place all her eggs in one basket. Find several U’s she will be happy at.
At some point there will be a time to retire from swimming. A college level sport plus engineering at a top 15 university is very difficult to manage. Her engineering peers will not have 30+ hours a week plus travel time in a sport and they will likely have a similar IQ with more study time and less fatigue to devote to their classes.
It helps to have many great options to select from.
You never know how financial aid will work out. If VU (or any other top U) can prevent her from a lifetime of debt she must consider it.
VU has a resident housing model as well as Greek life. Options are good.
If your daughter is so smart, then she must understand that she ain’t going to any school unless (i) she gets in and (ii) you can pay for it.
Hard to know where that will happen. So it is stupid to cross off viable candidates (like Vandy) since there’s no guarantee that Rice will work out.
Tons of kids apply to both Rice and Vandy (mine did). Plenty of geeks at both schools (my kid is one). Sure there’s differences but also similarities. Typically #1 and #2 in happiest students.
@BertieMom, my son is a freshman at Vanderbilt and it sounds to me like your daughter would be a great fit. I don’t know anything about college swimming but if she’s a smart athlete who also has other interests (you mentioned church friends and an engineering academy), she will definitely find her people there. Yes, Vanderbilt is in the SEC, but it is definitely not dominated by football culture. Greek life is there if you want it, but there are plenty of other ways to have fun, and Nashville is a big plus. As a small but cosmopolitan city with a big personality, it is the perfect size for a college town. I highly recommend you visit and take a tour.
My D (class of 2011) initially nixed Vanderbilt because of the rich-kid, party-scene reputation. She ended up there, was very active on campus, and got a first-rate education. She has a fabulous job that she loves, and she now is an alumni interviewer. Your D should visit the campus (and talk to the coaches, if that is allowed - not sure how that works!).
Sounds like swimming+academics is the draw for her. Has she contacted the coach? Seems like that would be the logical step. Is she looking at other academic powerhouse D1 schools besides Rice–doesn’t seem like it so much from your list?
Well, I think her desires match more with a Diii atmosphere but she wants the pride of being a Di athlete. Rice is one of those few schools that match that. Vanderbilt was one of the others that seemed to fit that. She does not have the times to go into a “powerhouse” Di program like Stanford, though i think she would love Stanford and it would be dream academically. She hasn’t yet made Jr Nationals, though that is a goal before graduation. If you have other schools to suggest I’d love to hear about them.
For Di she can email coaches, she has emailed Rice and University of New Mexico (her full ride safety with NMF scholarship) and has heard back from Rice. Mainly saying they look forward to keeping in contact and that they can’t call her until a July but that she can call them and talk if they answer (they can’t return calls). With her broken foot she has not had new times this season to talk with them about but she is still optimistic that she will make her goal times at sectionals in March.
I know all moms think their kids are awesome so it doesn’t mean much when I say she blows me away. She is so dedicated, strong, smart, chill, totally not wrapped up in appearances or much superficial at all, also so competitive in all the right ways. I hope this can all come together for her because I really think she deserves it.
Oh, also trying to focus on schools that meet full need because we will need that. MIT is on the list even though she sees it as a big reach since her swimming has kept from pursuing some of the ‘above and beyond’ endeavors typical of an MIT applicant, but the swimming is a great match, she has academic stats in their mid 50%, it’s every aspiring engineers chupacabra, and their NPC is the lowest of all the schools on our list. Swim money is not really something we are chasing because it is unlikely to be a larger amount than our financial aid award so our net price would likely stay the same.
The D1 vs D3 pride thing is perhaps one of the worst reasons to pick a school. Standard advice to aspiring college athletes – pick a school assuming you’ll have a career ending injury during your first practice. Even if kids don’t get hurt, there’s a huge wash-out among college athletes for lots of different reasons.
The only legit reason to target D1 schools is if there’s a chance of athletic scholarship dollars for your kid. Recognizing that if you take athletic money you won’t be able to also get fin aid money.
If you are really targeting fin aid money, then you should focus on those rich, full need meeting, high academic schools where your kid’s swim times will get them past the admissions office. Regardless of D1 vs. D3.
Could be a low end non-scholarship D1 swim program – Ivies or Patriot League (great engineering programs at Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette), or maybe Rice or Vandy.
Sounds like the more likely fit is going to be in D3 – Chicago, WUSTL, Emory, Case Western, etc. in addition to the ones you listed. On MIT, my understanding is that the athletics get you ZERO help at the admissions office.
If you are trying to get the swim thing to work, I’d suggest casting a pretty wide net among the coaches. Hard to know who will be interested.
Chicago and Emory don’t work because she wants to major in Civil/Environmental Engineering but the other two are on her list, but I believe NPC at Case Western was not at all favorable, compared to Rice and Vanderbilt.
The D1 thing only tips for schools she already loves like Rice. The only other one on her list so far is her financial safety, University of New Mexico, where she should receive the NMF full ride scholarship. I’m trying to encourage a look at Vanderbilt to add to that list.
