trying to make a realistic list.........who wants to help?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>My D is a white female from Long Island (middle class but w/ financial need- about 1/2 tuition)</p>

<p>Attends catholic prep school, GPA 97.4 (not sure if weighted or un weighted)
about 44 in rank out of 500 ( Just makes the end of top 10%)</p>

<p>SAT v750 m490( has studied w/ math tutor and is retaking 10/8)and writing was a 690 w/ 10 essay.</p>

<p>Will have 3 APs US history ( scored 5 in jr yr), Western Civilzation 1&2,Literature( will take AP Exam in May)</p>

<p>SAT subjects US history 780 and will take Literature 11/5/05 expect high score </p>

<p>Should have good rec from teachers of honors classes (English, western Civ, Studio Art-this one is extra if needed)</p>

<p>She is fine writer so I believe she will have good personal essay and short answers for app.</p>

<p>Very artisitic.....4yrs studio art in H.S. and 2yrs private art school, has her own website for art and photography. Has portfolio if asked to see it.</p>

<p>Ok.........with all that good stuff said.......</p>

<p>Here are some obstacles:</p>

<p>Not too much school involvement.........minimal Catholic League, Student Leadership, CARE club but not consistent or leader positions.</p>

<p>We can only pay about 1/2 tuition each yr and do not qualify for aid. Although our family has had some downward shifts financially this yr and will be filing a chapt 13 bankruptcy. Yet have also had an increase in income this yr from last yr. We have no savings outside her college custodial fund.
Not sure how schools financial aid offices will interpret all this and how it will affect thier decision for acceptance and for providing financial gap needed.</p>

<p>We are predicting that our best bet will lie in schools that offer Merit Awards.
However, she is in love w/ the humanities....English, Art, History, Classics possibly archeology. </p>

<p>We are under the impression that most Merit schools are pre-professional schools centering around business, school teaching and so on.</p>

<p>She is really hoping for graduate school w/ a hope towards a PhD. But our family funds are not suitable at this time for that kind of planning.</p>

<p>The dilema seems to rest in that while our financial situation seems to match a merit based school that appears more appropriate for a particular career path that she is not interested in, unfortunately the graduate path that she is so in love w/ seems to be an obstacle financially for us even at the undergraduate level. If she indeed wishes to attend the LAC's or universities that are popular feeders to graduate schools for the humanities.</p>

<p>So.....................
Perhaps someone will help us weed out which schools land a balance between</p>

<p>1) an excellent humanities base w/ a side of studio art and photography and graphic design.</p>

<p>2) a school that will produce a solid graduate school foundation.</p>

<p>3) she prefers an urban as first choice, suburban as second chioce but NOT rural medium sized school. Not way liberal not too conservative. She tends to be friendly but shy and likes artsy things and intellectual things but wants to have fun.</p>

<p>4) North east....New England area.</p>

<p>5)TUITION MUST NOT COST FAMILY MORE THAN 1/2 THE TOTAL PRICE!</p>

<p>Here is the list we have that seems to be it.........but we are open to suggestions for additions and cuts. We are parents of the first one off to college so please feel free to explain your answers,advise and share insights.........we value your experience.</p>

<p>the list:</p>

<p>Super Reaches that personality-wise fit but are probally out but are wishes:</p>

<p>Brown
Cornell
( Mom and Dad like NOtre Dame and Georgetown but she says ..."eh"..too far.</p>

<p>Reaches financially but fairly close match academically:</p>

<p>Boston: Tufts
Boston College</p>

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<p>Sorry the rest of the post seems to have fallen off.</p>

<p>After Boston here are the rest of the schools on the list:</p>

<p>NYC: NYU and Barnard</p>

<p>Hudson area of NY: Vassar, Bard..........yes somewhat rural, but the programs fit so nicely for her</p>

<p>Way upstate NY: Skidmore.......rural too...but again sounds like a good fit for what is offered.</p>

<p>Connecticut: Wesleyan and Connecticut College</p>

<p>Merit Awards Schools:</p>

<p>Fordham-NY ,Quinnipiac-CT, Manhattan College-NY...perhaps we should add a few more to compare pkgs?</p>

<p>Safety: She is quite resilient to this idea still, we need to find a safety she is in love with. A school in this category MUST NOT COST MORE THAN 15-20K for all.</p>

<p>We were thinking SUNY Binghamton or Geneseo. But have not heard great things socially for Binghamton and both are pretty remote, especially Geneseo.</p>

<p>We definately need ideas for this category.</p>

<p>We could ideas for LAC's or Universities of quality humanities education offerings that are known to be generous w/ tuition help for people in our boat.</p>

<p>We hope someone will answer and give us some direction and hope as we roll into October this weekend moving ever closer to application season.</p>

<p>We appreciate your responses.</p>

3

<p>par72 mentions Holy Cross frequently in cases like this-it's strong in the humanities and offers nice merit aid (including some $ for classics majors, I think). Bryn Mawr or some of the all-female colleges might be worth looking into, but I don't know if she'd go for that. What about Oberlin? It's in Ohio, but it fits most of the criteria. Haverford also might be worth considering.</p>

4

<p>First of all ELIMINATE the "need based" schools from your thinking. The effort must be to find merit aid & low COA schools that mimic the qualities she likes in those need-based schools. Seems like those qualities are intellectual, humanities-rich, smaller schools. There is NO way to get 1/2 off the tuition at a need based school even if your EFC is $20K, because the aid package may be half loans. </p>

<p>Urban, northeastern schools are the most highly sought-after schools, which means that there will be slim chances of sufficient merit aid unless your D shoots significantly lower than her Stats would suggest is her level. Also her current math score presents a problem.</p>

<p>Choices: (1) shoot lower than dream schools, but stay in NE and urban; (2) shoot elsewhere than northeast, but still high caliber & urban (3) consider rural areas in NE, with high-caliber schools. (4) Go for low COA publics with nice honors programs for "school within a school." Some have programs that will match your in state tuition (U Conn is one?) I don't know much about these but they are out there....</p>

<p>She might get attention at a slightly higher-caliber "urban" if it was outside of the northeast, because her NY homestate is less plentiful at many of those schools (for example, Rice, Occidental, Lake Forest, Vandy, Emory... esp if math score goes up.) If she is willing to go out of the area there are lots of possibilities. Grinnell is midwestern & non urban but VERY similar to Wesleyan in "feel" and it is a tremendous merit aid school. Where would she rather be? Grinnell, or Drew? This is her choice to make.</p>

<p>Urban or urban-close northeastern schools where merit aid may be possible-- all somewhat less selective than her dream schools:
Syracuse
U Rochester
Union
BC
Emerson
Temple
Drew
Fordham
Sarah Lawrence (not sure if there's merit aid or not)
Womens' colleges-- Smith, Bryn Mawr, etc.</p>

<p>I suggest these for northeastern humanities-strong LACs (none are urban):</p>

<p>Bard
Wells (*can take classes at Cornell)
Hobart & William Smith
Hamilton
St Lawrence
Muhlenberg</p>

<p>Others out of area:</p>

<p>McGill has a relatively lower COA, is urban, and is great-- in Canada. Might be worth checking into though.<br>
Also U British Columbia.
U Maryland College Park (LAC feel) is a nice lower COA.
U Miami big city, nice school
U Richmond, nice LAC</p>

<p>again by opening up geographic zone you get many more choices.</p>

<p>Good Luck,
SB</p>

5

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<p>Well..that is a moving target! This would depend on the school. At a state university, instate in NY, your total costs would be very low...in fact the total cost of attendance at any of the SUNY schools would be less than 1/2 the total cost of attendance at BC, NYU, Tufts or Skidmore, and the other private schools you have listed.</p>

<p>To me, if you are only able to pay a certain amount...let's say $20,000 per year (a little less than 1/2 the cost of attendance at the privates you are listing), in my opinion, you should only be looking at schools where the cost of attendance is $20,000 or less OR where your child has a guarantee of receiving merit aid to make up the difference. Check the websites of some schools...some schools give specific merit aid based on the stats presented.</p>

<p>Re: your choices as listed...I agree that you should consider dropping some schools. NYU, for example, has been reported to be notoriously stingy with finaid leaving huge gaps between EFC and cost of attendance. Look for schools which give merit aid awards (that means ditching any Ivies, Tufts...BC). If cost is the driving force, and from your post that seems to be the case...you should look for more schools in your "merit award" list and limit the others. Also, I'll keep my fingers crossed that your d's math SAT score really comes up a LOT. That will certainly help her admissions chances overall.</p>

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<p>yes, thumper, I was figuring they can pay max $20K per year.</p>

7

<p>From your posts you have to have merit aid, but not just any merit aid, significant "1/2 of total cost merit aid". You have to have Northeast. I will let others talk about SUNY's because I know nothing about them but I have researched merit awards at private schools in the Northeast. A lot, and in the same financial range.</p>

<p>Let's take the schools mentioned in your two posts in categories. Maybe it will help.</p>

<p>Before that let me say that I think the idea that merit aid schools take a backseat to need only schools in preparation for grad school is suspect at best. Several LAC's and Uni's that grant merit aid are great feeders to top grad programs. </p>

<p>First to go away-all the "need onlys"-that's Brown, Cornell, Notre Dame, Georgetown,Tufts, B.C., Barnard, Vassar, Wesleyan, and Connecticut College. They have zero chance of working for you if you have determined that you don't qualify for need based. (I'd triple check that.)</p>

<p>Then you have NYU and Skidmore . Schools that while granting some merit, do not seem that generous to me. Skidmore's max award is $10k. Won't help. NYU is notoriously stingy and merit aid is problematic at her stats , leaving Bard whose 75th percentile SAT is over 1400 if I remember correctly. None of these schools would provide a lot of comfort in the merit world if it were me.</p>

<p>Leaves Fordham, Quinnipiac and Manhattan College. Fordham 9% get non-need aid averaging about $8k. 75th %tile around 1300. By Manhattan College, do you mean Manhattanville? If so the SAT range is better, and I think it will be at Quinnipiac also. I don't have USNews handy and can't remember the stats.</p>

<p>In my opinion you might need to consider a different range of schools for merit awards. I've found it helpful to research the merit stats (% of students receiving non-need aid, amount of avg award and match that up with their 75th percentile SAT) of each school. Also don't forget that some merit awards are NOT SAT driven or GPA driven , some are for creative endeavors, public service, etc.</p>

<p>I also agree with the others who think that the Northeast will be tough at private schools, urban or suburban. </p>

<p>So let me close with another plug for Wells College. What a fantastic school for the right kid. Arty kids. Quirky kids. Pretty campus on a lake, shuttle to Cornell and Ithaca. Very reasonable $. Incredible bargain for a top 100 LAC. We did a drive-by and it is really a pretty place. We have recommended it to a dozen kids since we've been home. But, I admit that if she wants urban it will probably be a tough sell but remember the cross-registration with Cornell and Ithaca. That's a lot of kids. Something to think about, especially since their Cost of Attendance is half of Skidmore's, before any merit scholarships. Merit scholarships would be much more likely at Wells.</p>

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<p>Just a question...are you looking at any of the schools in the SUNY system?? They would all meet your financial criteria...and some also have programs that match your daughter's interests. Check out SUNY Stonybrook, and SUNY Purchase.</p>

<p>For a private school...check Drew University in Madison NJ. If her math SAT score comes up she would be a good candidate there.</p>

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<p>luliztee, there is a current thread about moderately selective urban schools that may provide some ideas:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=101882%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=101882&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Thanks for bringing us back down to earth. It's just so frustrating as a parent to know that your child is deserving of a top LAC but can not be admitted due to financial catagories we find ourselves in!</p>

<p>Im sure I'm not alone in feeling this way.</p>

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<p>I highly recommend focusing on Geneseo. It is probably the best SUNY and is also strong in the humanities and fine arts. I would also recommend you spend all your efforts on checking out the various SUNY schools to find the best fits. </p>

<p>Geneseo is really not remote. Half of Geneseo probably comes from Long Island. The drive is not bad and Jet Blue through Rochester is pretty cheap.</p>

12

<p>Luliztee - she can go to a "higher" school if she is willing to go out of the NE, it is as simple, and as difficult as that.
Try to get her to think outside the box a little - she is a very lopsided student - 700s and a 490???. Plus demonstrated talent and accomplishment in art. Does she really want or need to take any other quantitative courses? I would have her keep that in mind while looking at colleges. A college with many core or distributive requirements might not be the best choice for her, she might be better off with a school where she could take some accounting/finance/business type courses to help her if she decided to run her own art-related business.</p>

<p>I have a couple of suggestions - a friend of mine has an arty daughter at the Savannah School of Art and Design. It has limited liberal arts majors, including creative writing, but a wide variety of art and art-related majors. It is a recruitment site for Pixar, for example, and at the other end of the spectrum, has provided training for many of the historical preservation and restorers in the South. Much of the school is housed in historic Savannah buildings that the students themselves have worked to restore.
Another possiblity that has other issues, including recent bad press over safety issues is VCU - Va Commonwealth in Richmond - it has some specific strengths in visual arts that she might consider.</p>

<p>Another option that might or might not be helpful - some of the more financial gurus may weigh in - a gap year. If your family is filing Chapter 13, will waiting a year affect how income will look in one year?
Finally, finance gurus, would it help for them to get an FA evaluation from a need based school, perhaps one of the Catholic ones would be open to helping a Catholic family? Filling out the FAFSA will let you know to some extent - if you faint from the EFC alone, it is unlikely that a need-based school will ever be able to help you, but if the EFC is at all close to what you think you can afford, perhaps having a pro look over a complicated financial situation can help.</p>

<p>If you can get her beyond the NE, I can think of several good LACs in the South alone that might be doable with a $20000 parental contribution - time to have a serious talk with her about what she really wants.</p>

13

<p>I agree with cangel's advice about getting an expert to analyze FA implications of gap year. On another thread I had suggested that luliztee inquire as to whether "paying down" all of the college savings for freshman year might qualify D for better need-based FA as a soph.</p>

<p>luliztee, you need a good sit-down with a FA person, and I think finding one at a Catholic college is a good idea. The other possibility is engaging an educational consultant. They are in the yellow pages but I think a referral would be more reliable; an edu consultant would have much of this $ info.</p>

<p>The money situation is difficult and frustrating, however, I want to assure you you are not alone. In fact this sort of "shoot lower or leave northeast" strategem is also common among wealthy families-- families who really want their borderline/median stat kids to attend a tier one school. Your issue is getting merit aid, while many others' issue is just getting IN. </p>

<p>My D's top choices were similar schools to your D's wish list. Her list also included Grinnell, Kenyon, Beloit, & Lawrence. We investigated Denison & Carleton as well. No, she wasn't crazy about those locations-- but she realized that, once on campus, it wouldn't matter as much <em>where</em> she was... but it would matter with whom. </p>

<p>After visiting Smith, she applied there too... realizing the "all female" compromise might be preferable to a "Wisconsin winter" compromise. Really take a look at Smith, Holyoke, & Bryn Mawr; such appealing schools and closer to the geo. location she wants.</p>

<p>I would hand your D a list of the suggested schools that you've got and tell her to build from the bottom up: begin with finding two sure bets (both admissions and $) that she'd find appealing, then move up in selectivity adding more schools at each level, and then if she wants a statistical reach to end on, fine.</p>

<p>When doing this with my D I kept using questions like: well, if you can't have Haverford-- would you rather be at Allegheny, or Kenyon? Or let's say you got into Beloit and Smith. Would you be tempted to go to Smith?</p>

<p>It isn't easy to get these kids to think outside their boxes!! But the payoff will be her having several choices in April. Believe me, the wish list EVOLVES between now and April. Your main job is to widen her scopes and insist on enough applications that there will be choices. </p>

<p>Personally I think simply NOT applying to financial impossibilities is the best way, because it will force her to get over pipe dreams, be realistic, and to fall in love with other possible & realistic schools.</p>

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<p>deserving of a top LAC but can not be admitted due to financial catagories >></p>

<p>I'll chime in here. First, get rid of the idea that "top" LACs are the only good LACs out there. I don't know what you are defining as "top" but there are so many EXCELLENT LACs out there across the country that it is silly to feel she is going to miss out on an excellent education if she goes to a school you may not have yet heard of.</p>

<p>And that brings me to my second point, which Cangel and SBMom have already said but it bears repeating again. Look outside the northeast and her options increase tremendously. Laying aside merit money, even second rate schools in the Northeast are among the most expensive in the country. You can get much more for your tuition dollars in other parts of the country. I could give you the names of several colleges right off the top of my head where your daughter could go to school - including tuition, room and board - for well under $30,000 BEFORE merit money is even a factor. So, please consider the "cost" of staying in the northeast as you consider your daughter's options. </p>

<p>Try to consider a wide variety of options. You are right: she is limited. But she is limited not just because of financial constraints, but because of the geographic and "name brand only" constraints you seem to have set. </p>

<p>I do understand that not every 17 year old is willing to move to another part of the country, but she doesn't have to go far to broaden her options. For example, if she'd broaden her search to include the mid-atlantic and southeastern states, and be a little flexible on her definition of "urban", she'd immediately have many more options.</p>

15

<p>Would a place like Villanova be a possibility? Too suburban?</p>

16

<p>Merit colleges out of the NE - Allegheny College (PA) and Hanover College (IN). </p>

<p>And - just to nag once more - look into the needs-based aid situation with a professional.</p>