<p>I would like you deeply consider this and give me some input to help my situation. I got into the University of Michigan, Tulane, Wisconsin, etc... However, I am deciding between Tulane (which i received a $18,000 scholarship) or UMich (no money). In my fortunate position, my parents are willing to pay full tuition to any school of my choice. However, I am planning to major in biology and hopefully continue onto medical school. Therefore, the expenses of education do not stop after undergrad. Additionally, my father said he would pay me $10,000 of the $18,000 to go to Tulane because ultimately, I would still be saving him $40,000. Not just a financial advantage compared to Michigan, but I believe I will not have to work as hard at Tulane as I would at Michigan. Any serious input (besides the obvious "its warmer in New Orleans") would greatly be appreciated.</p>
<p>Before answering your question (which to some degree was addressed in another thread here recently, look at my posting on Feb 22 in reply to dudukiel) it would be helpful to know why you think you won’t have to work as hard at Tulane as you would at Michigan. Is that based on something factual or just your impression?</p>
<p>I carefully scrutinized every forum dealing with a situation similar to mine. I am judging this based on the reputation of Michigan (compared next to Northwestern and Vanderbilt), feedback from students at Michigan compared to “lower-tier” schools like Tulane, rankings, curriculum, etc. It is just the difference between a #28 school vs #50 school. However, I don’t believe that Tulane will give me any BETTER of an education than Michigan. I believe (as well as many others) that the $10,000/year that I would be receiving from my parents from my scholarship, isnt worth the better overall college experience that I would have at Michigan. Then on the other hand, having $40k in your bank account as a 21 year old out of college is definitely a good feeling… Your thoughts?</p>
<p>Some of my reply may sound either A) defensive; or B) snarky. I mean it to be neither, just the problem with the internet that sometimes one cannot convey tone well. So just know that I mean this to be as factual and constructive as possible.</p>
<p>I think your premise that Michigan is that superior is flawed in a few ways. I mean, it may indeed be quite a superior choice for YOU, but I don’t think one can say that as a generalization. Yes, Michigan is an amazing school with some incredible facilities and resources. But so is Tulane. So what is it that makes you think Michigan is so academically superior to Tulane? It isn’t like Michigan uses magical textbooks Tulane doesn’t, or teach different facts. Of course, based on the sheer size of the school Michigan certainly has more offerings Tulane doesn’t than vice-versa, although how important that is to you as a pre-med is unclear. The professors are certainly perfectly knowledgeable and capable at both for teaching undergrads. In fact, you are far more likely to see profs teaching your classes at Tulane than at Michigan for your lower level courses.</p>
<p>So is it the quality of the student that is better? Well, if you look at the stats of the incoming freshmen, the answer would be no. Tulane and Michigan are in a virtual dead heat in that regard. And I am one that feels strongly that the quality of your peers is a huge factor in the quality of your education, so I would be pointing out that advantage for either school if they had one there.</p>
<p>So it must be the rankings. Well, I could go on for hours about how the rankings are completely, totally meaningless. You really shouldn’t even bring that up, they are so bogus. But I will leave it to you to look into what goes into the USNWR ranking system, and think about all the flaws that go into weighting peer assessment (does one honestly think that the amount of national press schools like Michigan get for non-academic factors doesn’t affect this measure?) and 6 year graduation rates (remember that Katrina was 6 years ago so Tulane cannot report a meaningful data point for this) so heavily. Believe me, they are just trying to sell magazines, and I honestly would say that even if Tulane were ranked in the top 10. They are trying to measure the unmeasurable.</p>
<p>So if you really believe based on your own sense of what is important to you in a school that Michigan is that superior FOR YOU (redundant I know, but needed emphasizing), then forget the $40,000 and go to Michigan. You will only do this once. You should have the best overall experience possible, just as you say. Just be careful you are defining that experience based on what YOU want, not what USNWR says or some other vague impression. These two schools will offer you vastly different experiences in almost every aspect, and academics may be the least different of them, at least from a direct knowledge point of view. The atmosphere of those academics will be very different, as you would see at Michigan upon entering your first lecture of 750 students for freshman chemistry, biology, etc. Again, not saying that is bad, you might be perfectly fine with that. Just saying that, among a hundred other things, will be different at Michigan than at Tulane.</p>
<p>I think you probably already know many of the ways these two schools are different. I hope you have been to visit both. If not, try, try try to go. That might make your decision much easier. I am not saying $40,000 is meaningless, of course that would make a great “nest egg”. But not if you think you would really be unhappy at Tulane. Only you can know what it is that is most important to you, but certainly we are all happy to answer specific questions about certain aspects of Tulane. No one can give you meaningful "input’, as you asked for, based on no personal information at all. I can only tell you that I think you are approaching your decision making based on incorrect assumptions about the undergraduate experience in general, at Tulane in particular, and your role in your own education.</p>
<p>Fallen: I didn’t have the patience to write what you so eloquently did…</p>
<p>Besides, I don’t think I could have controlled the “snarky”…</p>
<p>As a student at Tulane taking some science classes, I can tell you that Tulane Biology/ Premed department is easily harder than Michigan. Michigan may have a bigger name and more prestige programs, but Tulane’s Premed is nothing to sneeze at. Come to Tulane and major in Bio, I bet you would wish you had gone to Michigan because it would be easier there than Tulane!
Don’t think you are better than anybody else here and it would be easy for you because you got in better ranked schools. I had the same thought before I came here. But when you come to Tulane you will realize how many people are in the same boat as you and how many people got into equally amazing if not better schools than you did.</p>
<p>OK, let’s calm down, lol. Just as the OP made some assumptions based on impressions, which is fairly normal for high schoolers and I blame largely on USNWR, let’s not make the same mistake by assuming things about Michigan or anywhere else, for that matter. Based on my personal experience and that of many others I have talked to over the years, the most crucial factor in what makes one school’s classes harder than another’s is the competition from your peers. Go to a school where the average student is a clear notch or two below you intellectually because the school is much less selective, and you will find yourself setting the curve on many tests. Go the other direction and you will find yourself having to work very hard to keep up with the curve.</p>
<p>Interestingly, we have a unique empirical experiment that occurred in Tulane’s case. Katrina hit before classes even started, and the students had to scatter for the semester. The vast majority took classes at host universities around the country, including many of the most prestigious (there is a completely excellent paper tree on the wall in a room in the LBC where the leaves are all the schools that hosted Tulane students). Quite a few of these schools such as (if memory serves) Chicago, Rice, Emory, Vandy and many others commented on how excellent the Tulane students were. Many offered the students slots to stay. I personally know of this happening at Chicago, Tufts, and I think the other was Duke. The point is, of course, Tulane students acquitted themselves very well at these and many other schools. They can, as a group, hold their own with the best in the country.</p>
<p>I would also point out that more winners of the exceedingly competitive Presidential Award, given out to only 2 students from each state (!!) plus a few studying abroad for 140 or so in total, have chosen to attend Tulane than a number of schools ranked higher by USNWR. Think about that, only about 140 winners out of over 3 million high school seniors graduating.</p>
<p>Anyway, the point remains that Tulane is the best choice for some people, Michigan for others, and isn’t it great there are two (and many more of course) schools of such high quality that offer such different settings in which to enjoy that quality. One doesn’t have to make absolute judgements about institutions that are so large and complex that generalizations are almost meaningless, especially since what is poison for one person is a life saving cure for another (not to be overly dramatic or anything). I would only hope that the OP can step back a bit and reassess the starting point from which he was approaching this decision. I think that has a chance of leading him to a more clear minded decision.</p>
<p>Also sharing thanks to FC for posting a well reasoned response. I would have been tempted to say something like anyone who thinks Mich is harder than Tulane based on USNews rankings deserves to go to Mich, but then I would have thought better of it and maybe toned it down a bit… ;)</p>
<p>“Go to a school where the average student is a clear notch or two below you intellectually because the school is much less selective”</p>
<p>Fallenchemist: You could not have gotten to the ROOT of my question any better. From my extensive research on the two schools, it seems to me (as well as many others) that the average student at michigan is more competitive, harder working, etc. However, I am not talking about the QUALITY of the education between schools because I do not believe a notable difference exists. I am talking about the ability to “stand out” at Michigan would be slightly harder than being able to stand out at Tulane. Being that I barely had the requirements to get into Michigan-the average student there will be at the same notch, if not much higher than me. That is my concern, especially since premed and the competitiveness that comes with it are already crazy enough. I truly believe that when applying to medical school, the prestigious of one’s undergraduate education is minimally considered. If Tulane is a school that might be a little less stressful than Michigan, work a little less hard, and I could come out with a slightly higher GPA-that is what I want. How did you ultimately choose your school? Are you in pre-med? Please give me any advice you have to offer!!</p>
<p>Guhengshuo: Please reassure yourself that I do not (in any way) think I am better than anyone on CC for simply posting a question. I strongly agree with you that just because a school is ranked higher does not mean it is better. I am talking about the DIFFICULTY and COMPETITIVENESS between the two schools. Why do you say Tulane is harder than Michigan?</p>
<p>OP-
You just joined cc yesterday and you claim to be 24? This doesn’t pass the smell test to me.
BTW, FC is a parent with an advanced degree. So no, he isn’t pre-med.
What are your stats?</p>
<p>undecided - as jym says, I am a current Tulane parent, and also an alum (wasn’t pre-med, but all my fellow chem majors were, at least starting out). People are being a little hard on you because you came onto a Tulane board with the premise that Michigan students are academically more qualified than Tulane students. However, I am not sure there is anything to back that up. Let’s check out some recent stats (fully knowing that stats only tell you so much, but there is little else to use):</p>
<p>25/75 percentile range:</p>
<p>UMich
SAT Critical Reading: 590 / 690
SAT Math: 640 / 750
SAT Writing: 610 / 710
ACT Composite: 27/31</p>
<p>Tulane
SAT Critical Reading: 610 / 700
SAT Math: 620 / 700
SAT Writing: 620 / 710
ACT Composite: 29/32</p>
<p>Personally I would call this a tie, as I said earlier. U Mich does have a much more comprehensive engineering school, so the higher math scores are not terribly surprising, but again we are talking relatively small differences.
Both have about the same percentage of students that graduated in the top 10% of their class, although this is a notoriously unreliable stat because the high schools fudge a lot, and comparing a school that draws primarily from Michigan to one that has a more geographically distributed student body also makes comparisons difficult. But I think it is fair to say that students at both these schools performed at very close to the same level in the classroom.</p>
<p>So given that evidence, I am not sure why you stick to the premise that the students at Michigan are academically superior to those at Tulane and you will therefore have an easier time at Tulane. I would still suggest you move away from that premise.</p>
<p>But you asked for advice, so here is what I will say given that I have no idea what makes you “tick”, other than wanting to look as good as possible to a med school in the future. Based on that, I am tempted to say you should attend a far less competitive school than either of these two, since that would make your goal easier. However, I will also take you at your word that you want to pick between these two, and so you do in fact have a desire to attend a quality school and not just want to get a very high GPA as your only goal.</p>
<p>My first piece of advice is that, if you accept my assertion that the level of academics (i.e. competition) will be very similar at these two schools, then you should pick whichever you think provides the best overall environment for you to personally be happy and successful. This means taking into account many of the little things that make you more satisfied overall. Is going to a school with big time sports important to you? Do you want to be somewhere that you can do meaningful research as an undergrad, and get to know your profs well? You brushed off the weather aspect in your first post, but would you be happier cross-country skiing or laying out in the sun in January? Ann Arbor and Uptown New Orleans have polar opposite ambiances, so I would think one would appeal to you far more than the other.</p>
<p>My second piece of advice: Go someplace very quiet, clear your mind, try to imagine yourself at both places, and rely on your instinct as to where you can really picture yourself. Again, this works better if you have visited both, but even then there is no perfect answer. If you visit Tulane during Crawfest, it will seem different than if you visit during midterms. Same for visiting Michigan on a beautiful gameday in the fall vs. late January when nothing special is going on. But we all deal with imperfect information all the time, so don’t obsess. Just be honest with what is important to you. If it is what you perceive as prestige and reputation, then OK. We may not all agree that this is a good reason or that your assessment is correct, but if it would gnaw at you that you didn’t go to the school you thought was most well thought of by others, then you should take that into account.</p>
<p>Then there is the $40,000. Maybe this is a tiebreaker, I don’t know. But if you are becoming convinced that the schools are more similar academically than you thought, and these other factors keep balancing out for you, then maybe that is the deciding factor. No one can tell you what to do, only suggest how you might approach making the decision.</p>
<p>These are two very very good schools with an unbelievable amount to offer the right person. I don’t think you will find an “aha” factor that will make the decision easy. You can only think about it, weigh everything, and make a choice. Once you make it, commit to it and make sure you get everything out of your undergrad experience you can. I am sure whichever place you end up will be great for you.</p>
<p>Tulane Science classes are going to be very competitive, because most of the upper tear students coming in choose to do premed. Most of the students who got the high scholarship or turned down ivies are actually science majors. Therefore the average science classes here are way more competitive than liberal arts or business school. I say that Tulane science is going to be harder than Michigan simply because the competition. Most of the professors grade on a bell curve, which only allows around 15 As in a 170 people class. You have to be really good to get that A! And you are competing with people who got into top ranked schools in the nation. As Michigan goes, I know that it is higher ranked than Tulane, but they have a way larger student body and way more sessions for one class. Therefore you have a better chance of getting that A, since there are not as many “ivy level” students competing with you in your specific class. That is why I say you would find Tulane Bio more challenging!</p>
<p>So is it “champions of the WEST” or “champions of the WORLD”?</p>
<p>FutureVp - Huh?</p>
<p>Don’t forget that at Michigan you’d get to experience the amazing football Saturdays, and a stadium filled with 113’000+ people. Academically, I think both schools are excellent, but at Michigan you’d get to experience the hype of Big Ten sporting events (think UM v Notre Dame).</p>
<p>^^for 4 home games? The Op can hop a flight to Ann Arbor…</p>
<p>Fallemchemist- the end of the Michigan fight song. I’ve always wondered</p>
<p>FutureVp - Oh, lol. That’s funny. The sites I looked at said it was WEST.</p>
<p>My daughter got into both schools and has chosen Michigan. She wanted the big school feel with a really smart student body. I think at Tulane she would have gotten the smart student body too, but after touring she couldn’t see herself anywhere other then Michigan.</p>
<p>That’s great mfjas5. That is exactly how the process should work, when possible. Best of luck to her at Michigan. We will look for her on TV in the stands at the games.</p>