For those unfamiliar…the Johnson guarantees full tuition, room, and board for four years, while also providing $7,000 for summer/extracurricular opportunities.
Thoughts? Is it worth turning down W&L to attend Dartmouth (I received ~3.5K in grant aid)? My parents are willing to contribute 35-40K/year, but no more…thus far, financial aid appeals have not been fruitful.
To add some context, the reasons I worry about W&L are as follows:
Lack of a dedicated applied math/stats department; to a lesser extent, an accredited engineering curriculum. I’m very interested in applied math and stats. I eventually want to go into a job in the data science field…how easy is it to get into the field right after graduating from a liberal arts college such as W&L? Or, would I need to go to grad. school first?
A possibly too relaxed/not ambitious enough of a student body…
The bucolic setting (albeit exceptionally beautiful) isn’t ideal…but I would enjoy it nonetheless.
Perhaps too small of a student body with too much of a boarding school feel.
To add, my parents would be able to continue supporting my equestrian pursuits (actually to a much greater degree) if I attend W&L. At other schools, this is unlikely, even impossible. This equestrian sport availability would definitely play a big role in keeping me “happy” at college, but it’s not a factor directly derived from the educational experience, so I don’t know if it’s worth considering in this dilemma.
Many thanks! I hope you don’t get lost in this musing of mine…
That sound you just heard was my jaw dropping as I read your description of the Johnson scholarship. That’s pretty stunning.
So, over 4 years, you’re looking at ~$284K per year at Dartmouth. Your parents are willing to contribute $140K to $160K. Dartmouth will give you an additional $14K. That means you will graduate with at least $110K - $130K in debt when you graduate. I don’t know your financial situation, but use one of the online calculators to figure out how long it will take you to pay off that much money. I’m guessing 15 years or so.
Data science is still a relatively new field, so there are plenty of data scientists who will tell you certificates, work experience and online training is sufficient. Then again, I'm sure employers will not scoff at your resume if you have an MS in Data Science from Columbia. My only suggestion is that if you end up going into in math/statistics, make sure you have a very strong foundation in CS - SQL, Python, Hadoop, etc.
I think you're trying to politely ask if W&L students are too focused on their social life and not enough on their studies. I don't know how you can measure that, but maybe looking at the Class of 2016 outcomes will help.
W&L
48% Employed
24% Grad school
20% Unemployed, but looking for a job
7% Internship
1% Unemployed, not looking for a job
If W&L is bucolic, I would think Dartmouth is only slightly less bucolic. At W&L, you will be ~1 hour from Lynchburg and Roanoke, ~2 hours from Richmond and ~3.5 hours from DC and Greensboro. At Dartmouth you will be ~1.5 hours from Burlington, ~2.5 hours from Boston, ~3.5 hours from Montreal, ~4.5 hours from NYC. The Hanover/Lebanon/White River Junction area has about 4 times the number for people than the Lexington area though.
You're right about the size - W&L is less than half the size of Dartmouth - incoming class of ~460 vs ~1150. Not sure about the "boarding school feel", but two things that pop out to me re:W&L is that it's almost 88% white and over 80% of the student body is a member of a fraternity/sorority. Those two numbers are closer to 50% at Dartmouth. Both schools have lots of students from wealthy families though - 55% of W&L students come from the top 5% (income) while only 1.5% come from the bottom 20%. Dartmouth is not too different 45% to 2.5%.
As far as your equestrian pursuits are concerned, happiness is always worth considering.
No clue if this helped, but good luck with your decision.
If your choices were between Dartmouth and a less rigorous/known school, I may agree with you. But W&L is an excellent school. A free ride is a phenomenal opportunity. If I were you, I would attend W&L, major in computer science, and plan to attend an ivy league, other highly ranked school for a masters degree in Data Science. There is a great deal of overlap between data science, CS/Math. You are saving so much money with W&L you can take a couple of data science classes every summer at some of the schools with leading data science programs. Also, I am not sure that Dartmouth has a formal data science major. I know they have an excellent engineering school, but as far as I know data science or applied math/science are not offered as majors at the undergraduate level. You will save a ton of money, get a masters degree in data science, potentially earn more, and get an excellent undergraduate education.
Take the scholarship and the opportunity to ride on a regular basis! The amount of debt you are contemplating for Dartmouth would be crippling. You’d likely be paying out a significant chunk of your income until age 35 or 40. You have no idea how liberating graduating debt free is. Also your folks might be able to help you out later in life with the money they didn’t spend on your tuition - maybe with a down payment on a house or a condo or help with financing a car or grad school.
The summer money would give you the freedom to take unpaid internships that could advance your career objectives.
There is also probably the opportunity for independent study at W&L in your field of study if you want to explore a subject that isn’t offered as a regular course.
Dartmouth has plenty of “relaxed” students, very active Greek life, and a preppy/sporty feel. While it’s larger than W&L, the differences in the student body may be less than you imagine. Google beer pong and Dartmouth if you haven’t done so already.
My son was an alternate for the Johnson until late Friday when enough granted the opportunity finally accepted . It’s appalling to me that some who were granted the full ride displayed negativity towards Washington and Lee on multiple threads on this site. Ultimately my S chose LSU honors college where he will graduate and keep all the educational savings I have for him. He should be able to make it thru grad school or med school debt free which is liberating! At the end of the day it’s not where you are but how much effort you put in to something that makes you the best person you can be. I am a physician who teaches residents how to become an Internist. When my residents tell me the amount of debt they have incurred on top of all the stress they have in training it saddens me.
I think this is a pretty simple decision. You cannot afford Dartmouth, because their estimation of your need does not match your parents’ willingness/ability to pay, and the gap is huge. Far, far too much debt
for you to consider taking on. Another thing to consider is that you would not be able to get loans of that size on your own. Your parents would have to cosign, which effectively makes them their loans. It doesn’t sound as if they are willing to take on any debt.
Therefore you must select another school.
W&L is a good school, and the ability to go there with the kind of financial deal you describe is astonishing. I suggest you take the deal, and don’t look back. The freedom you will experience down the road and the opportunities the summer subsidy will afford you will make a very big difference in your life.
BTW, this goes for all of the other fine schools where you were accepted and received insufficient FA. I wonder whether you parents discussed this with you before you drew up your list, and whether they ran the NPCs for each school?
I am a W&L alum and work in labor mrkt analytics. Your data side should be asking what, if any, the delta on a career post Georgetown vs. that of W&L measured against the costs (free vs. $250k). I can’t tell you what you should do, I can tell you the labor market will not reward a Georgetown degree in a meaningfully different way than a W&L degree.
