No offense, but it sounds like you’re living in an extremely charmed sheltered bubble if you believe this sort of thing never happens or high school environments which have this as a serious issue within their student bodies don’t exist…
Unlike you, I am openminded enough to allow for such possibilities…
That’s true to an extent.
However, part of the school’s interest in maintaining their good reputation is also dependent on making reasonably accurate assessments in the LORs they write on behalf of their students.
Similarly to a government issuing fiat currency which is highly dependent on the potential recipient’s perception of the reliability and financial strength of the government backing that currency up, high school teachers/GCs who issue too many LORs which exaggerate the positive qualities or worse…fabricates a false positive portrayal of a student at complete odds with what the college Profs/admins see in the college classroom/admin offices will take a major reputational hit which will correspondingly nullify the value of LORs written for future students.
When that affects elite/respectable college admission outcomes…the reputation of the high school concern will also suffer. This will be reflected in the enrollment of subsequent classes and admission outcomes.
This is something high schools and teachers/GCs need to be mindful of…especially considering there are plenty of other comparable high schools in contention for positive admissions outcomes and thus…higher perceived reputations and correspondingly…greater demand by families/students looking to attend high schools with great reputations for placement in respectable/elite colleges.
Well it’s just possible that Dartmouth isn’t looking for introverted and socially awkward kids. Requiring peer recommendations is one way to screen them out. MIT highly, highly encourages interviews for much the same reason.
Even my oldest who I was often tempted to give the t-shirt that says “I’m not anti-social, I’m just not user-friendly” had three high school friends who would have been happy to write a recommendation if it had been required.
I’m puzzled by some of the opinions on peer recommendations. I don’t see how anyone could think that a GC has more interest in getting a kid into a college than the kid’s best friend. And won’t most of the friends be asking what to say?
As a family who has chased (and ultimately won a lot of) need based aid, we understood going in that our pups’ options were limited. S and D applied to an average of 10 schools each, and for us, the application fees were not insignificant. We did not qualify for fee waivers, but since their GPAs were stellar, we knew Flagship State was a safety for them. So they chose to apply to schools with great need-based aid over potentially high merit aid schools - which they likely would have been very competitive for (i.e., likely could have won some of them). But because there is a huge difference in known FA from the NPC, between the top 10-15 schools versus the next 30 - 100 or so schools, for us, the gamble on merit aid was not worth the cost of the application fee.
From what I read on CC, we are much more in the minority situation than many families here on CC.
This makes me wonder what the distribution of applicants to elite schools looks like. Most of these tippy top schools boast about somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% of their accepted students receive some financial aid. Which implies, of course, that 40% are full pay, and quite able to afford roughly $65K per year for 4 years. But I wonder, of that 40%, how many are legacies, etc compared to the other 60%. More importantly, of the 30K to 45K total applications, does the distribution skew more heavily toward the kids whose families could full pay vs. those that would require some financial aid? Or do more families who could be full pay, choose not to even apply to these schools because they recognize they could do better with merit elsewhere?
I have been told that many of the elite schools find just under 30% of their classes from public high school graduates, while the majority comes from prep/private schools. And it seems that from the public high schools, more of the kids that do make it to the elite schools have come from Leafy Suburban High as opposed to PS Inner City High No. 1234.
So, what are the adcoms trying to address? Do they want more Leafy Suburban High applicants, fewer Applicant Consultant/ private school applicants, or more PS Inner City high kids?
17 and 18 yo kids are not all that reliable. And probably do ask their friend what to say or even to write it for them. Or try but just don’t do a very good job. I don’t see how a peer can write a reference that has much value. Especially since a teacher has much more experience with writing such letters.
One of my kids was slow to mature socially. He did very well in interviews because he was interesting and good at adult conversation. But chatting with other high school students? Not so good at that. He could have gotten a friend to write something, but asking or following up would have been tough and really would not have reflected much about how he would do in college.
Do a lot of schools ask for this? Never encountered a peer recommendation request.
Cobrat, are you having a crabby day? 
Gosh, I thought I was a pessimist!
Back in HS, some elite/respectable colleges did allow for one as an optional additional LOR. However, none of the HS classmates I knew felt the need to submit one.
A few HS friends did jokingly ask us to write some to pass around among outselves for a good laugh.
A sampling from one written for a friend “Has a nasally high pitched voice which epitomizes confidence… The intelligence of a lobotomized gnat… Has the ability to talk himself straight into the dean’s office and/or prison. If admitted, will set [X elite/ivy university] academically back to the stoned age-and beyond. Has aspirations to be the next Milli Vanilli or Vanilla Ice in the music industry. However, if he can’t match or surpass those idols in the music business, he’ll settle for becoming the next Ivan Boesky, Michael Milken, or Nick Leeson-his backups.”
Maybe that’s the point: in a LAC-like community, folks learn from others. Not sure introverted and socially awkward kids are being recruited, in this instance.
Dartmouth requests one, but I have no idea how they use it.
Fascinating!
There is nothing new here!
Finally a prestigious collection of schools is acknowledging a ravenous cancer that has been haunting higher education for decades. The test, rank, “pick me, pick me!” fever that has been generated by the ACT, SAT and a craze for the vastly oversimplified college ranking system. BUT IT SELLS and we seem to love it.
It makes everything easier?
The cure is a change in focus by the consumer… THAT"S YOU the students and the parents. “We have met the enemy and he is us!” (apologies to Po Go). We feed this beast!
We are missing a valuable opportunity in the college selection process. WE THE STUDENTS ARE A VALUABLE RESOURCE that even famous schools need. We need to work with them on a better system.
With parental support:
Once we change our prospective, our questions and the entire college selection process changes:
Think of the possibilities when all those saddened college rejects take pride in who they are and discover that there is a world of incredible opportunities out there that may actually do a better job of meeting their needs!
YES, schools are different, often very different. Their lack of a recognized football team or a Nobel laureate faculty does not define their educational effectiveness. What do they teach, how do they teach, can they help me grow to become the person I would like to see in that mirror?
I was involved in a revolutionary educational program decades ago. Just this year, they were selected by the National Academy of Engineering for the Academies highest award in education. It took decades for this very different educational process to be recognized for its very significant contributions to the evolution of education.
We need educational diversity. Diversity leads to discovery. Lets not all look in the same mirror.
No.
Respectfully, but again, no.
The consumer model of higher education has created enough problems since it began to edge into the discussion. It ought not be allowed to go further, even rhetorically.
A nice thought retired farmer, but sadly out of touch with the reality of college admissions in this day and age…
Your “power to the student” call might have worked decades ago, when colleges had 1/4 the number of students applying. Then students were much more confident of where they could actually go to college.
That’s not the case now…
The laws of supply and demand are in charge now, and too many cards are in the hands of a too small cohort of in demand, famous colleges…
Only if you make those handful of colleges your ultimate goal. Like a lemming.
Dartmouth is not a tiny LAC. And interestingly, many suggest a smaller school for kids that have some social challenges. I hope your speculation is not true Bluebayou.
It is a supply and demand situation. I don’t believe any grass roots efforts are to change those circumstances with the demand so heavily out weighing the supply, not only domestically but internationally as well.
I don’t know how many students and families hold the elites or bust attitude. That was not the case for our family. Yes our daughter applied to 8 elites but her credentials supported that, she was also accepted at two SUNY flagships and other schools where she was awarded significant merit aid. We went about it strategically to attempt to address all potential outcomes academically and financially.
@menloparkmom Maybe @retiredfarmer is on to something. Kids seem to want to protest and demand something these days…maybe this should be if? (TO BE FAIR: they have always wanted to protest;)
This may not be a popular opinion here, but I see no need to weed out introverts. Essentially, they are just different. Not worse. Not socially inept. Just different. If introverts were the majority, we’d be weeding out extroverted superstars. Some of those introverts are superstars too. And some are introverted due to neurological and personality disorders, (in the vernacular, “disabled”, which makes weeding out a no no).
As for passion and saving the world…Why weed out kids that just want to go to college so they can get a good job and have a good life? This is a bad trait now? Why insist a kid have a deep passion at 16? Very few “honestly” do. Why do we send them off to discover themselves if they already must do so before they can get in?
Do you want a renaissance man/woman, or a norrow-focused, deep, passionate one? Why not both? Do you want kids that will learn and grow, or kids that are already developed enough for you to know they will bring notariety and donations to your school once they graduate? BC I thought I was paying tuition for my kid to be educated. If anyone should be judging the long-game ROI, it is me, not the Dean of Admissions…
Society is a bit of everything, and kids should see that in college too. Diversity is not just about income, race and gender. When we bubble wrap them and send them away to “Just like me, but in various Colors and Incomes” University, we are doing them no favors. We are just exacerbating insular and entitled behaviors.
Rant over. Thanks for listening!
:-<
There is a supply and demand problem but I think you have it backward. There is an oversupply of schools versus students. Yes, spots at HYPS have less supply than demand but there are plenty of schools in this country that can’t fill every seat. Quite a few in financial turmoil. If your daughter was accepted to even two schools- supply of schools was greater than her demand for them. Sounds like she got into at least three.
Schools are not fungible and students aren’t either but on the whole, there are a lot more spots in schools than students to take them.
When colleges say they want to see community service, I don’t think they are demanding that students drop everything else to start ladling out food to the homeless at the local church. What I think they are saying is that they want students who are making their community a better place.
And we can define community in a broad way. Community can mean their school, their church, their town. Participating in local theater makes your community a better place. Posting fan fiction online and beta testing other authors makes a community a better place. Helping your math team win the competition makes your community better.
The kids who might be hurt by my definition – those introverts who write poetry or music or solve math problems at home for hours and don’t share with anyone. Some of those kids might be such geniuses that I hope they get recognized somehow. But the top schools want to accept students who are more than academically inquisitive and smart, who offer more than 2400 SATs – they want kids who take their brains and apply them to the world’s problems, who will contribute somehow to make the world better.
I think adding another recommendation from a non-teacher would be a great idea. Not a friend, but the newspaper adviser or choir leader or coach.
Who ever said LORs only come from teachers now? LORs can come from pretty much any adult now. That is not new.
From a peer would be somewhat new. I think that shows the school what kind of friends you have and how they feel about you. Could help or hurt you. If you only associate with the other kids just like you are you likely to add to the diversity in college or just associate with those just like you all over again. Depending on the school, you might be better served to choose someone very different from you to write the letter. Another thing that can be gamed and packaged unfortunately.
Many schools are pretty clear from whom they will accept a LOR. Usually they want an educator (a teacher), or occasionally a coach or employer. Not a friend or friend of the parent’s or clergy or what have you.