APs aren’t restricted to HS seniors or even juniors at my HS. If a 9th or 10th grader has fulfilled academic prereqs as far as the HS/teacher in question was concerned, he/she can take 5 without issues and 6+ if he/she and her parents confirmed they understood the potentially greater work implications by signing the required AP override form.
It’s not unheard of for 9th graders to take AP Bio in lieu of regular bio in 9th grade or AP Euro and AP Chem in lieu of regular Euro/Chem in 10th grade. In fact, most classmates who are permitted by our HS to do so do take AP courses starting in 9th grade onwards.
And in math classes, it’s not unheard of for 9th/10th graders to take and successfully Calc AB/BC* and our HS offers higher level math courses beyond them for students who need them to fulfill the minimum 3 year math requirement and if those are exhausted as they were for a few classmates, take intermediate/advanced undergrad or sometimes even grad-level math courses for math majors at the local 4-year colleges.
Yes, the problem at @TheGFG 's school seems to be way too much busy work with hardly any pedagogical benefit being assigned. The teachers seem to be just torturing these students to no apparent benefit. Put bluntly, these teachers suck. This problem should be fixed regardless of what changes are made in the college admissions process. At the least, these teachers and the school district officials need to be sent to some teacher training sessions.
Honestly, if what’s been said is truly indicative of what’s going on, then I’d start by firing the principal. This will give the entire school a chance to “reboot” and to purge the curriculum of this silliness.
Imho, she took the most important AP, if she took AP English. Many students don’t immediately realize the importance of being clear, effective writers; and of knowing how to do research for a term paper or essay…
And along with AP Calculus… I predict your daughter will do just fine in college.
I love how people assume that applying to multiple schools on the Common Application is just like clicking the “add button”. For almost all the highly selective colleges, there are robust supplements- usually with multiple essays and short responses. The benefit the Common App offers is that you do not need to keep refilling administrative information and recommendations are more easily uploaded/sent. It is still a lot of work to apply to each college (at least the selective ones)- just now the repetitive form-filling is much less prevalent.
I don’t understand this whole ‘SAT scores correlate with family income, so they shouldn’t be considered’ argument. Here’s a list of things that also correlate with family income:
-Quality of high school
-GPA
-Access to unique EC opportunities
-Participation in AP/IB classes
Basically, every measurable factor in regards to college admissions (except for race, gender, and state residency) is correlated with family income. If anything, the SAT/ACT has less to do with financial opportunity than anything else I’ve mentioned. The SAT Official Study Guide is $20. Anyone can purchase this book and increase their SAT score by 300+ points; it’s just that some students aren’t pressured to do well on the SAT, and don’t really care about it. The same thing can be said about GPA.
I disagree with the idea that GPA is related to income. Plenty of people in CC and many high schools(including mine, which is located in the most affluent part of the Oregon) prove to be not-so-poor even with poor GPA.
I like the idea of being able to do college level coursework in HS if you are ready, but I am not sure I like it for college credit per se. It isn’t surprising to me the most selective schools don’t give credit or limit credit for APs. DS will have completed at least 12 APs before finishing HS, so he can skip essentially all Gen Ed if he goes to a flagship. I feel like he is going to miss out on something important. There is a level of rigor and discussion I doubt you can replicate in most HS environments and at HS age. I am not sure DS agrees, but he is a kid.
However, having students repeat what they already know does not make sense. Remember that AP was started as a collaboration between elite high schools and elite colleges to allow the best students to get advanced placement instead of repeating what they already know. Of course, now that it is more widely available at non elite schools, the elite schools often look down on it.
Of course, college policies vary widely. AP scores may give credit units, subject credit, advanced placement, or some combination of the three. Which you consider desirable may or may not match a given college’s policy.
If Harvard wants true diversity, it should take all applications with scores above certain threshold and choose winners in a lottery. Instead, they have sets and sets of preferences: VIPs, legacies, minorities, athletes, whatever. And (miraculously) end up with children of the most influential.
First of all, I disagree that all/most kids at Ivies are emotional wrecks. We are a middle class family from the South and our kids are at Yale and Dartmouth now and my youngest is being recruited for Harvard and Princeton for swimming. The older two have had a very positive experience and have made some great friendships, joined clubs, traveled and even held on-campus jobs. (By the way, none of our kids ever set out to attend an Ivy- that was never discussed nor was it their dream to attend one. It just worked out that way. Our other son is at the Honors College of our state school and we’ve been just as impressed with his experience there so far. The academic support at each of the kids’ schools has been impressive across the board and the kids are happy and loving life. The good news is that there are a lot of great options for kids to consider in the public vs private realm.
So, with that said, I agree that many students have become hyper-achievers in an attempt to gain admission to the most elite schools. Those are the ones who become so stressed out and burned out that they will indeed be emotional wrecks by the time they get into college. As parents, our focus has always been to tell our kids that they need to forget about being perfect - that’s boring- but instead focus on being interesting. We encourage them to find their passion and go be awesome at that. Leave the other stuff to other people. There are a lot of great schools out there beyond the Ivies and if they focus on what they enjoy most, they will land at the right school for them.
So, my sense is that this is kind of what those elite schools are saying too (hopefully)- that they don’t want kids who have frantically raced around checking off every possible activity, AP course, subject test, etc. but who have instead focused on activities and pursuits meaningful to them. If so, that’s a good thing.
Really folks, all you need is the SAT review book, and the diligence to read what it says. We can afford high-end tutoring, but my kids did just fine with the review book when they took the SAT before age 13 for a talent search. Although we will need a new one since the SAT is changing. So $40 instead of $20.
“If Harvard wants true diversity, it should take all applications with scores above certain threshold and choose winners in a lottery. Instead, they have sets and sets of preferences: VIPs, legacies, minorities, athletes, whatever. And (miraculously) end up with children of the most influential.”
People who truly are influential don’t NEED their kids to go to Harvard (unless their kids want to). Influence means precisely that - other people have to impress you, you don’t need to impress them.
I’m more interested in why a college would provide remedial reading and math classes.
If AP courses are taught as a college course there are not fluff projects to waste time and energy.They would best be given as block courses. AP college credit allows more options in college.
HS requirements such as 3-4 years of the same language are limiting. Two was plenty. Of course I say this as someone who hated languages–but I would have been better served by taking classes in something I was more interested in.
The requirements for community service are excessive at some schools. Now they want it “meaningful”. Yet going to work with some responsibility and getting paid (how else do you decrease student loan debt?) is not counted.
Learning to navigate in a job (just getting one) is much more meaningful to a young person than any community service project I can think of.
I absolutely love AP classes and credit. We are fortunate that in our school district the AP classes are taught by some wonderful, experienced teachers who “get it”. It felt as if our school was trying to challenge the students academically, while preparing them for success in college. (less emphasis on “prestige”…padding GPAs…and more emphasis on learning outcomes) My children were able to learn a lot. And the composition of their AP classes provided an academically-stimulating environment.
Would the learning experience be enough without receiving AP credit in college? Sure. But in my children’s case, the AP credits that our state flagship gave them has been a HUGE blessing. I am grateful for the opportunities they have now, as a result of pushing themselves in high school. With the cost of college these days, having credit hour flexibility shouldn’t be quickly dismissed.
Just cap the number of AP test scores a college will look at to one or two. If the student wants to take as many AP tests for reasons not related to college admission, that’s fine.
@Pizzagirl#594: They may not need to, but apparently many of them want to and they do. Such is the reality. You are making some valid points, but you have the tendency of describing your ideals as if they are the reality.
Well, the insistence on being/having one’s children on the top is the ultimate culprit. The people involved CHOSE to be competitive, which carries inevitably the baggage of stress. There is always the option of demanding less of yourself/your kids and, short of removing performance altogether from the admission process, it’s the only way out.