@85bears46 : I watched every single video from chocopuffeater and “like” every single one of them. Does it look to you she is having fun at school? Does it look like she enjoys her study there? Does she actually learn what she likes to learn there? The last part of the video should get everyone thinking – she concludes there must be some good coming out of it and she assumes other college students are having the same experience. It is simply not true. Every student can only attend one university. But her mentality and her boyfriend got her going. She sees light at the end of the tunnel. Other kids at other universities receive great education and have fun at the same time. They never got into the tunnel and they enjoy every minute they are at the school.
That young woman is spirited but perhaps just a bit ditzy in this as in all her videos. She’s got charm to burn and is obviously quite intelligent to boot. Complaining about the quantum and hardness of work and the refusal of profs to make allowances is perennial. She does that but not in a way that suggests to me that she’s having a really rough time. I’m pretty sure she’ll do just fine, and I detect in her a pride in handling this hard stuff. That pride might well go back to her having come to the US as a youngster of 5 without English and being plunged into a world of English speakers. Brava, she clearly has the right stuff.
However, the attitude she shows here is really very consistent with the UChicago way more generally - working very hard, being a little overwhelmed, and being proud of one’s accomplishment. That attitude is almost de rigueur at the University of Chicago. The depiction of oneself as just sailing along above the fray having fun doing a lot of nonacademic things - that may be the cool vibe at Brown or any number of other places, but it has never been cool at Chicago.
@nrtlax33 is a prosecutor who for unknown reasons is bent on fashioning an indictment on as many grounds as he can (crime, mental health, no fun, rigged admissions). He is really recycling in more obsessive form perennial attitudes towards the place often seen more dilutedly on this forum. Behind all the specific charges lies a boola-boola sort of collegiate style as the model against which the University of Chicago is judged and found wanting. Many have that view, expressed less starkly. Any kid thinking of coming to the U of C solely because of its new-found popularity ought to think about that. We old Chicago hands know that Chicago isn’t for the likes of the pleasure-loving, the timorous or the slothful. We know that “fun” is a term that requires Chicago-style redefinition. This poster’s strange vendetta will have a useful purpose if it reminds kids of those things.
Bravo @marlowe1
@marlowe1 : Just a FYI, you are talking to a parent whose kid has finished THE most difficult course at Brown and like it so much as to choose a “hard” concentration among popular majors for premed. The student is a TA/EMT/peer academic advisor and ran one of the biggest events on campus last semester plus other ECs/volunteer activities. I would dare you to find anyone in UChicago who can accomplish this (thanks to core curriculum). The core curriculum might be good for some people, but the content is outdated. If you can’t understand the girl’s native language in her video, you obviously can’t understand her message. (Did you even bother to watch her other videos? ) Trump’s granddaughter is fluent in Mandarin. She has a nanny teaching her Mandarin since she was born. What does this tell you? I read news in three different languages from five different regions every day. For the same event, you see totally different descriptions. I find it very funny/disturbing. UChicago has a large Asian population thanks to ranking-obsessed full-pay Asian parents/students. You just lose a bunch of them. No personal attacks please.
I think the biggest risk for UChicago is economy. With about half of the students major in economy, if economy starts to go down. UChicago is going down with it. State Street and BNY/Mellon has started to lay off people and none of the trading desk of the Wall Street banks is doing well. The risk is clearly there.
Markowe1- “The depiction of oneself as just sailing along above the fray having fun doing a lot of nonacademic things - that may be the cool vibe at Brown”
I think generalizing about any school in this fashion is misleading and inappropriate. I would prefer not to be placed in a position to need to defend the rigor of Brown because of what appears to be a personal vendetta. That said, while students at Brown do enjoy eclectic interests they don’t in my experience “sail along”. They strike a balance between academic, athletic and social interests and go all out towards them all. The school’s curriculum encourages this type of experience.
As I have posted previously I have the utmost respect for the University of Chicago. It doesn’t come at the expense of another school such as Brown. I would suggest that UC can stand on its own merits without your having to generalize pejorative assumptions about other schools students or culture.
UChicago and Brown are very different culturally, but they share something in common. They both seem to have been afflicted with the same disease and their fans feel a need to vigorously defend everything about their respective college. I’m no fan of UChicago’s admission practices under Nordorf, but I hold its academics in high regard, certainly much above the levels at Brown in most subject areas.
@nrtlax33 , I see that you are adding some further particulars to your bill of indictment - the Core; some unique financial exposure of UChicago (I suppose you are alluding to debt); and, if I understand you, a dearth of Mandarin-speakers at the University of Chicago. Sigh.
I have great admiration for Asians and believe they disproportionally have exactly the qualities Chicago values. However, it is a bit much to ask a venerable institution to alter its culture, programs and historical mission merely to attract that population. Also, I’m not convinced from my own experience that all its members share your own educational views. Those that do, like those of any population who don’t like the Core, etc, should go to another school. I don’t doubt your kid found Brown congenial. And, as has often been said on this forum, excellence comes in many forms and kids can excel at almost any institution. It is certainly not a reason to homogenize the world of higher education. You have never explained why it is your mission to do that uniquely for the University of Chicago. I am happy for those who don’t like the Chicago model to go elsewhere. You seem bent on making Chicago over as a place all can go if only it ceases to be Chicago. That will be hard to do if weather and the neighborhood are part of the remake.
@Nocreativity1 , let Brown be Brown, let Chicago be Chicago. Do you believe there are no cultural differences between those schools, or, if there are, that we shouldn’t ever allude to them? I have no vendetta whatever against Brown, have never posted on their site and would never have brought that school up at all except for Nrt’s repeatedly using it as a club with which to beat Chicago. Ought your reasonable injunctions be directed to him rather than to me?
@Marlowe1- My vendetta comment was not directed at you. Please see my prior suggestions on several threads that while I am a Brown “fan”, he should “let it go”. So apologies for you not having that context
I think both schools are great academically and occupy unique cultural spaces. Neither is right for everyone, and both can exist with mutual respect.
I don’t think the place to discuss Brown is on “Chicago’s Types of Students” thread. I also think that while the cultures are very different the kids aren’t and most could thrive at either school. Trying to answer the OPs question doesn’t have to be done in comparison to other schools kids that the OP also likely doesn’t have first hand experience.
@nrtlax33 re: your post #80
That sounds like the way you’d go about concluding a theory, using an example here and there, and then generalizing across the board. Why fault her for doing the same as you?
You are watching one person’s experience, and a snapshot in time at that. You don’t know her, so don’t jump to conclusions based on a snapshot. There are another 6000+ undergrads and 10,000+ grads, in addition to the many aluni who didn’t vlog their day-to-today. Living in dorms is also another experience altogether, as there would be a flurry of activities and one is surrounded by many more students socially speaking, so you’d get a different vlog altogether. Maybe if you’d tail every student, and then every alumni, you would get more comprehensive data that way.
There are probably hundreds of thousands alumni plus current students, and each of them might have had a different set of experiences. Unless you’ve followed them around every day for the entirety of their time at university, you would not know what each person’s experience would be like.
But how you’re operating is that you are looking for evidence with an already decided set of beliefs in mind, and then you seek out those anecdotes and massage some data to confirm and support your beliefs.
That’s your opinion and that’s YOUR truth, so do not assume it’s truth for everybody.
(disclosure: this is all conjecture about you and your methods, because I don’t know you.)
Re: Tangentially speaking re: Northeastern, they’ve managed to increase the USNews rankings only, because they were so intensely concentrated on it, but they were not able to move up other rankings. A school’s standing should be more or less consistent, but in Northeastern’s case, while they proactively moved their rankings on the USNews list, they are still lagging behind on others. I guess they’ll have to start another years-long campaign to move up on another list. (ps I am only referring this particular instance, not making a judgment about Northeastern’s quality of academics or anything else, as I think highly of their student body.)
“I think the biggest risk for UChicago is economy. With about half of the students major in economy, if economy starts to go down. UChicago is going down with it"
I am not sure this is very accurate.When the economy goes down, almost everyone goes down, but people with Econ. degrees and skills are usually the last ones to go down. This may be part of its appeal.
While UofC seems like a perfect college for that intellectual, “life of the mind” brilliant student, I do worry that it isn’t the best fit college for many students but because of its rankings and prestige it will get many, many applicants for whom the school wasn’t built for.
I can see where the “chance me for the ivies” kid would also apply to the UofC because it’s ranked in the top 20 but not fully understand the culture of the institution.
@socaldad2002 Your concern is valid and applies equally well to the same type of kid who applies to every Ivy or HYPSM just because they are prestigious and highly ranked. For some reason, when masses apply to the latter group it is seen as a vindication of their well earned prestige, but when they apply to Chicago, it is misguided.
If we’re on the subject of risky degrees, in financial terms unless one can get both undergrad and med school almost free, becoming a medical doctor presents a high degree of risk in the US. Cost of obtaining the degree and training are at an all-time high and there’s a fairly substantial risk that some sort of socialized medicine or greater government involvement will put a large dent in potential future earnings for any doc that doesn’t practice the very few forms of private medicine for people willing and able to pay cash outside insurance. Nothing like paying hundreds of thousands of dollars and investing over a decade of your life in getting a qualification where your earnings are suddenly reduced and capped by the government… ouch.
Most of my friends who are doctors are not encouraging their children to be doctors unless they can get their training substantially free or are so dedicated to caring for people that they will not be disappointed if being a doctor doesn’t provide them a high income type lifestyle. There will always be a demand for healthcare workers, but the days of doctors being a high earnings career (when factoring in the cost to obtain the cert) are at high risk of coming to an end…
But that’s the sort of thing people with economics degrees think about.
"While UofC seems like a perfect college for that intellectual, “life of the mind” brilliant student, I do worry that it isn’t the best fit college for many students but because of its rankings and prestige it will get many, many applicants for whom the school wasn’t built for.
I can see where the “chance me for the ivies” kid would also apply to the UofC because it’s ranked in the top 20 but not fully understand the culture of the institution."
Agree. The increase in ranking and the marketing campaign definitely attracts applicants that wouldn’t fit or be happy. Which is also the case for any college in the WSNWR T20. Do we really think every applicant for every other top college would be a perfect fit for that college? It makes the job of the AOs harder. But so far, it appears the AO team is up for the challenge.
Based on the results so far, the AOs appear to be doing an excellent job of finding the UChicago nuggets they’re mining for. Retention is 99%, which we wouldn’t see if there was a huge disconnect between the first years and the college culture. The class stats indicate it’s a fantastic, well qualified, energized group that is a great fit - win/win.
So far, the admissions team appears up for the challenge of figuring out good matches for the applicants and the college.
If one’s goal is to live a high income type lifestyle, a medical degree is not the best choice even if you obtain it for free.
@milee30 : I have calculated and shared before the number of undergraduate students who decided not to come back after winter quarter last year (some did come back after the summer). The number is 104. 1.73% of undergraduate population. Please think of them. No one has been able to explain what happen to them. Evey quarter is like this. Winter quarter is particularly bad. Maybe AOs need to consider the weather factor in addition to the core curriculum. Based on the posts on UChicago threads, how many students do you think they know what core curriculum is? The Asian girl obviously does not appreciate it. If UChicago let them know what they have to learn even if they have absolutely no interests on the subjects, the number of students who are having issues will certainly reduce. 4 courses per quarter for STEM students is not ideal (if you have two labs, it will be really bad). This is just my personal opinion. Maybe it will work out for other majors.
Multiple people have pointed out that your calculations are suspect and based on information that is not a complete data set, that there are multiple potential explanations. The fact that you persist shows you have a personal issue here.
There is no college on the planet where one can’t find stories of an unhappy student.
Your fixation on this is odd.
I don’t think UChicago makes any secret of its Core curriculum. In fact, it is one of the first things mentiond on its undergrad admissions page. Many students choose to go there because of the Core. I guess you can find some who go there despite the Core, but I doubt you will find many matriculants who don’t have some knowledge of it. If one thinks 4 courses is not ideal for STEM, that person may need to reconsider attending medical school.
@mmb333 I wanted to pass along the experience of one current student at UChicago. My D is a first year at UChicago and absolutely loves her college experience so far. She said that it is certainly not the place fun goes to die. She finds time for a varied and rich social life. She calls UChicago her home now and couldn’t wait to go back after winter break.
Granted she is an extrovert and has thrown herself into the college experience by joining a couple RSOs (student clubs) and rushing a sorority. She is constantly amazed at the diversity of her fellow students but even more so by their talents and intellect. There are athletes, non-athletes, preppy kids, goth kids, the super-wealthy and Pell grant students, kids who party several days a week and kids who don’t get out much. There are all types at UChicago and maybe it is less unique in that way than it may have been in the past. She also loves the house system with all the house activities and outings and the feeling of belonging that it helps foster. She in one of the newer dorms with dining hall next door and the amenities floored me compared to what I experienced at my SLAC many moons ago. One of her house mates competes on one of UChicago’s academic teams, and UChicago has flown the team to several competitions across the country w/their expenses paid by the College. And though my D was concerned about the Core requirements at first, her favorite classes so far have been her Core classes. The Core creates a common experience/bond among the student body as well. She has been impressed with the professors she’s had so far and finds them excellent and passionate teachers. And due to the small class sizes, she has gotten to know a couple personally and has along with classmates taken them out to coffee or dinner. She has also been impressed with the development/internship resources that UChicago offers and found herself an amazing paid tech summer internship through the Handshake system which UChicago and other top colleges employ. And she says her experience is a common one among her friends.
UChicago isn’t perfect–she says she and her friends do feel stressed at times b/c of the high expectations of the professors (and from within) and the quarter system. (However, she notes that her good friends who attend other top colleges like Duke, Princeton and Williams express similar stressed out feelings.) The pace of the quarter system is very quick and it can be easy to fall behind if you get sick or decide to otherwise skip more than a class or two. Also due to classes not ending until mid June, it makes accepting certain structured internships (like hers) that have early June start dates a little more difficult. However, she says this is a common issue among the students there (4th years take early finals their last spring quarter) and based on conversations with current profs and upperclassmen most professors are willing to accommodate with early finals as long as the student communicates that need early. She’s also choosing to take at least one class for her Spring quarter with a final paper instead of exam and choosing to get her Art Core requirement out of the way. But there are advantages–the quarter system allows students to experience more classes in their college career, and if a student isn’t really enjoying a class it only lasts 10 weeks rather than having to suffer through an entire semester. She has witnessed some kids partying/drinking to excess and some recreational drug use but those are issues certainly not unique to Chicago. And of course the winter weather has been an adjustment–they are in about to face an extraordinary cold spell this coming week even by Chicago standards.
In sum, she is 100% certain that she made the right choice for herself in choosing UChicago.
@KnightsRidge
Thank you, Your post has put me at ease. Some of the doomsdayers on here have had me stressing out for my daughter who can’t wait to take on the challenge as a first year at UC.