Ouch, @exacademic ! Say what you will, but in the quest to be a tippy top school, I’m not sure how Chicago’s finances aren’t a problem, when you look at the other schools in this space.
Cue7 - Hate to pick at old sores, but is your opinion of the new North Campus dorm the same (i.e. not favorable) now that it is built and occupied?
@kaukauna - yes. In my hope to fuse Chicago education with Harvard (or Yale) like brand, I wanted dorms that looked more venerable, and not as space age-y/strange. Further, I think it’s a mistake to have houses that are quite small (around 100 people). Many of Chicago’s peers have houses/colleges that are 300-500, and that’s a better number.
Here are some examples of new dorms I prefer:
Yale’s: http://newresidentialcolleges.yale.edu/ and http://yalecollegeexpansion.yale.edu/new-colleges
Princeton’s: https://hres.princeton.edu/undergraduates/explore/residential-colleges/whitman-college
Sewanee (they did a great job with a much more limited budget): https://www.sewanee.edu/media/sewanee-today/news-pdfs/pdf/VannNessSitePlans.pdf
Harvard Lowell House renovation: http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/3/2/lowell-renewal-losbois-teampleat/
New residential college at Vanderbilt: https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2016/03/31/new-residential-college-at-vanderbilt-to-expand-living-learning-opportunities/
Anything like that would be better than what Chicago built. At the least, don’t do something gaudy that’s a total departure from the surrounding neighborhood on 55th St. But no, the U. went weird with it, and paid a premium by hiring a big-name architect.
The students seem to like the North Dorm, a lot. It’s hugely popular. But of course, who cares what they think.
Or, @ThankYouforHelp - who cares if there’s something better out there that the University could have selected?
Drawing from another thread, and lest you think I’m the only one with the grass is greener outlook, here is Chicago alum David Brooks with a snarky comment to Chicago’s College Class of 2017:
“I’m here because as someone who teaches at Yale, I thought you should have some sense of what it would have been like if you had been accepted there.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCW4bf7YLU0
(Starts at 4:44)
Don’t think moments of brand envy start and end with me!
@Cue7
Probably Yale’s new dorm is amazing, but nothing can change the fact that Yale is in New Haven, one of the worst (if not the worst) college towns in USA. Students have to spend all their college life inside the campus- not for everyone.
Princeton is beautiful, but to stay there and live in that state of isolation is not for everyone either.
Harvard area is anything but enviable, a large homeless population, tourists, and infernal traffic. The last time the dorms were remodeled was 40 years ago, and Dunster House, the only new one, is not a piece of art either. The common areas are ridiculously small, and it is 6 blocks away from the square. That, besides many things that I don’t like about the philosophy of that place. (Finals Clubs? No thank you).
As you see, you can find elements to criticize everywhere.
Harvard’s campus is nothing compared to UChicago’s, for example, not matter what you say. It is just spectacular and impressive. And only 15 min from that incredible city and its innumerable possibilities. And for many, quality of life counts, not just the brand name.
I agree, Carino - and imagine if Chicago combined all that (great location, nice neighborhood, etc.), offered its characteristic education, AND also had that burnished brand. For most, that would be an even better deal, no?
(Also, statistically, of course, it looks like students flock to brand/reputation. Not ALL, of course, but if you look at cross admit data, the results are fairly predictable. Go back and look for my posts on the Stanford senate reports - they produced cross admit data, which is a telling factor.)
(And, yes, I think Chicago is taking appropriate steps for this goal - they’re obviously recruiting more at wealthy prep schools, they’re building bridges to lucrative industries, etc. There are some clouds on the horizon, however, as shown in this thread.)
@Cue7 What are the five recommendations you would have for the UChicago administration to build a stronger brand?
Please clarify your vision of what a “stronger brand” means to you and what metrics you would use to measure it.
@Cue7 Following the brand/reputation as the only factor to consider is very risky. As I told you before, those places are not for everyone. My daughter would not be happy in any of those, for example (maybe for graduate school?). She is a multidimensional person: extremely smart and dedicated, but loves good restaurants, museums, plays, concerts, and pleasant surroundings. I have heard of many cases of students that made the whole matrix when considering their options, my daughter among them, evaluating all factors involved in their final decisions about applications and acceptances. I think it’s not wise to go for the brand itself. That is why there are so many cases of depression, anxiety, changes to less demanding majors (extremely common), etc, etc (BTW, colleges keep those statistics to themselves for as long as they can). Quality of life counts. A lot.
I really like our smaller houses! They are very different from Harvard and Yale’s - you’ll know everyone well and it’s more like a big house in the colloquial sense. The best comparison is Smith’s system.
I also really like Jeanne Gang so I’m a big fan of North’s design. [This article](Why forward-thinking Yale is opting for backward-looking architecture | ZDNET) sums up my thoughts on dorm architecture. I don’t think we should build more uninspired, backwards looking Gothic buildings just because they’re going through a wave of popularity now. North has some bad design decisions (mostly corners cut for cost like casting the ceilings in plywood molds - ew - and not putting sound dampeners in lounges so they’re really echoey) but for the most part, the internal design is very well thought out and complements the house system well.
Some ideas:
- Find a donor to give ~$40-50M to endow a program that creates a league between Chicago and a few big-brand schools: maybe Stanford, Duke, and Johns Hopkins. Through the endowment, fund trips/competitions/collaborations that students could do at the different schools. So, Stanford, Duke, and Hopkins students could do an econ bootcamp/certificate at Chicago. Chicago, Duke Hopkins students could get a certificate in CS from Stanford. Maybe something in medical ethics or medicine at Johns Hopkins. Maybe something public policy oriented from the pub pol school at Duke. Fund a rotating faculty conference. All this would actually increase the allure of each school. Call the league something - the Quad League, or 4 Points League - something. Give Chicago a chance to rub shoulders with these other brands. In exchange for entering the league, each school would get a donation (of around $10-15M).
- Expand the number and types of Institutes at Chicago. So the Institute of Politics has been tremendously successful. Why not have an Institute of Sport (that assesses sports/data analytics, and brings in big names in the sports industry regularly, and maybe hosts a big event or two - like the Heisman Trophy presentation), an Institute for Film (that brings in directors, actors, etc. for film screenings and to talk about their work), and an Institute for Art/Media (bring in/have performances with tv personalities, host more episodes of Wait Wait Don't Tell Me from NPR, Chicago symphony, etc. etc.). Have these Institutes host events on Saturday nights - like a talk with a director and movie screening, a conversation with a sports GM or exec and a wine reception, etc. to charge up student life a bit.
- Build a bona fide, large, and top-rate Student Union - centrally located - that is a focal point for undergrad life. Have lots and different types of spaces for student groups - offices, dance studios, performance spaces, lounges, meeting rooms, a big pub restaurant with late hours, screening rooms for films/tv, host watch parties, game rooms, etc. Make it a vibrant space. On Saturday nights (when the dining halls are closed) sponsor reduced-price dinners in the pub/restaurant, and have seating be random (e.g. encourage networking and for students to meet other students - not just sit with the same people). Have watch parties for shows - Game of Thrones, popular comedies, movies, etc., and encourage people to mix with new people at this facility.
- Actively work to get high-profile admits who ALSO believe in the Chicago education. Try to get some Obama children, Kennedys, Spielbergs, etc. to go to Chicago undergrad. Every class should have some high profile names in the mix.
- Build out sports a little more - have varsity crew, squash, fencing, etc. teams - whatever can get the school competing with some D1 academic schools (like harvard, princeton, etc.).
- Take the show on the road: through the institutes, expand the footprint elsewhere. So host events at other places - the Institute of Sport could advertise, market, and work with, say Manchester United - offer consulting to the club, or with the Patriots in the NFL, the Institute of Art/Media could sponsor the Chicago Symphony and host events downtown, the Institute of Politics could host events at peer schools and draw alums (and others) from all over.
- Establish "University of Chicago Centers" in high-trafficked areas in other cities (domestic - we already have int'l ones). So in NYC, Boston, LA, etc., have event space that has Chicago-events, but is also open to other public and private events. The centers could have study/tutoring spaces and be rented out to admissions consulting firms, schools, etc. Law firms, consulting firms, businesses, etc. could host events there. OTHER schools could rent out the space for use. Get the name out there in other areas. So, plant a flag in the Gold Coast or near north Chicago suburbs, in Manhattan (or, to be cheaper, Brooklyn?), LA, etc. Alums could always access these spaces too. Brand the heck out of these spaces - list the nobel winners, have beautiful pictures of campus up, etc.
- Host more camps/big events for high schoolers on campus - so summer sports camps, science competitions, local Chicago HS sports playoffs, etc. - become a destination for these types of events.
- Expand reach/community centers in the south side - this is just a good thing to do, but get our students out into the community more. Have the soccer team host practice sessions, have tutors, build safe spaces (literally safe spaces!) where kids in the community can go to hang out.
All these things would help the optics/brand. The bill for all this would be in the $350-400M range (maybe $150-200M for the Student center, and $150-200M for endowments, purchasing/leasing of space, etc. to get the rest off the ground). In the context of a $5B capital campaign, this isn’t huge.
@Cue7 I have to hand it to you, my friend - you’re relentless. Brooks’ little shtick was intended to get a laugh - and it did. From everyone but you, at any rate, who solemnly offer it as evidence for your theory of “brand envy”. When is a gag only a gag? If anything, it’s surely a send-up of the phenomenon of ivy-envy among kids of Brooks’ period. Perhaps you didn’t notice in your days at the College that self-deprecating humor is part of the culture. This was the place where “Second City” was invented after all. Come to think of it, you must have concluded that that old nickname for the City of Chicago must be evidence of “brand envy” and that all Chicagoans lust to be New Yorkers.
No no, @marlowe1 - it was certainly a joke, and was intended to get a laugh - it probably got the biggest laugh of his speech.
But, to me, it was also a classic Chicago moment - Brooks talked passionately about the Chicago education he received in his talk, but he couldn’t take a little wistful poke at all the Yale rejects he was talking to on graduation day at Chicago.
@Cue7 My dear new friend – David Brooks’ Yale comment is a ubiquitous quip made all the time in schools about other schools. His speech was great and full of admiration and love for the Chicago of old with recognition the new Chicago is a much better experience. He also gave an insightful commentary on what is lacking. Now if you said Harvard envy, you would of course be onto something … .
Oh very true @Chrchill - it’s tongue in cheek, and probably strikes a wistful tone for more than a few Chicago students (“oh if only that Yale acceptance had come through…”), but then realize they’re happy at the U of C.
I also enjoyed Kumail Nanjiani speaking at the Grinnell College graduation, and talking about how impressed everyone was when they heard he was at “Cornell.”
I hear at Harvard’s graduation, they just give students guidance on how to “drop the H-bomb”.
Btw @Chrchill and @marlowe1 - what were your thoughts on my ideas for improving Chicago’s brand and awareness (post #510)? Curious to hear input.
@Cue7 all great suggestions. Personally, I am supremely indifferent to sports. But I suppose you are right and it sells to the unpolished masses …
@Cue7 at Harvard we just observe a moment of silence for Yale.
@Cue7 btw, I can tell you that for my DD!, Yale was never even considered not the least because they have become an ultra left fruit loop.