U of M vs U of Alabama

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
101

<p>“I was not smart paying full load for my oldest s at Georgetown if s could have received free ride.”</p>

<p>Michigan is instate for the OP.</p>

102

<p>Link to Exeter matriculation data?</p>

<p>I didn’t know it had shifted its focus. So it’s no longer an Ivy feeder?</p>

103

<p>"I personally wouldn’t spend a penny more than I needed to on a History degree if I was comparing two state schools. Lakeforest13 brings up a good point about GVSU or Oakland providing full-ride scholarships but why take any of those schools over Bama?</p>

<p>Alabama has incredible school spirit, sports teams, dorms, residential experience, and a strong Honors program from what I have heard. The college experience it would offer would far exceed what any school in Michigan besides U of M and MSU could offer.</p>

<p>If your parents can swing the extra $50K without much hardship, then go to Michigan. Otherwise, U Alabama is a pretty attractive option."</p>

<p>Well said Goldenboy. I would say for MOST in-state students, UM is a smart choice. Choosing Bama over UM isn’t unheard of, though.</p>

<p>Exeter is still an ivy feeder. By offering financial aid to low-middle class, Exeter isn’t really shifting its focus… I don’t remember seeing a high number of students attending Alabama from Exeter. I would guess it is just a financial safety for a few students.</p>

104

<p>You can all spend pages trying to convince yourselves that this isn’t a crazy comparison and it would be rational to choose Bama over UM (like what happens with just about any school x vs. school y thread)…but it still doesn’t change the fact that Alabama is a terrible school. It’s not just not noted for its academics, it’s actively mocked nationwide for bringing in and supporting students that are in college for any reason besides academics. Anyone with a pulse is qualified to go to school there and nobody with drive and high ambitions is going to find the environment challenging. For the sake of your kid at least come up with other options if for some reason you don’t take advantage of arguably the best deal in American higher ed at UM in state.</p>

105

<p>"Link to Exeter matriculation data?</p>

<p>I didn’t know it had shifted its focus. So it’s no longer an Ivy feeder?"</p>

<p>Here’s the link to Exeter’s college matriculation list lakeforest. Alabama is not in there though, at least not for that year. The Ivies, on the other hand, still seem to attract many Exeter students.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.exeter.edu/documents/2010_-_2012_matriculation.pdf[/url]”>http://www.exeter.edu/documents/2010_-_2012_matriculation.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Other Exeter peers also remain primary feeders into the Ivies (I did not notice any students going to Alabama though):</p>

<p>St. Paul
<a href=“http://www.sps.edu/podium/default.aspx?t=6543[/url]”>http://www.sps.edu/podium/default.aspx?t=6543&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hotchkiss
<a href=“http://www.hotchkiss.org/academics/college-advising/matriculation-list/index.aspx[/url]”>http://www.hotchkiss.org/academics/college-advising/matriculation-list/index.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Andover
<a href=“http://www.andover.edu/Academics/CollegeCounseling/Pages/SchoolProfileCollegeMatriculations.aspx[/url]”>http://www.andover.edu/Academics/CollegeCounseling/Pages/SchoolProfileCollegeMatriculations.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Lawrenceville
<a href=“http://www.lawrenceville.org/academics/college-counseling/matriculation/index.aspx[/url]”>http://www.lawrenceville.org/academics/college-counseling/matriculation/index.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Collegiate
<a href=“http://www.collegiateschool.org/podium/default.aspx?t=114062[/url]”>http://www.collegiateschool.org/podium/default.aspx?t=114062&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Dalton
<a href=“http://www.dalton.org/program/high_school/college_counseling[/url]”>http://www.dalton.org/program/high_school/college_counseling&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Taft
<a href=“http://www.taftschool.org/academics/pdfs/SchoolProfile2012_13web.pdf[/url]”>http://www.taftschool.org/academics/pdfs/SchoolProfile2012_13web.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The Hill
<a href=“http://www.thehill.org/collegematriculation[/url]”>http://www.thehill.org/collegematriculation&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In fairness, students at those elite private high schools do not usually enrol in public universities unless they are regional (UConn, Delaware, UMass, Penn State etc…). The exceptions are the “usual suspects”, like Cal, Michigan, UCLA, UNC, UVa and a couple others. Michigan actually seems to attract many students from those schools. </p>

<p>I think that some posters on this thread are saying that Alabama is a great fall back option. Some students do not get into their preferred schools, and if they do, the cost of attendance may be prohibitive. I definitely agree. For those students, Alabama is a solid safety, guaranteed to admit them with a full tuition scholarship assuming they meet the minimum requirement.</p>

106

<p>"“I personally wouldn’t spend a penny more than I needed to on a History degree if I was comparing two state schools.”</p>

<p>The, “I personally wouldn’t spend a penny more than I needed to on a History degree if I was (were) comparing two state schools” comment just once again shows the mindest of some posters here on CC. The implication is that if one of the schools were privately controlled, then it would be worth it to pay the extra “penny.” Michigan is an elite public univeristy. Academically, it is a peer of elite private universities like Duke. Alabama is an average state school. It is not academically a peer of Michigan. It’s not even close. If it is worth it to pay a premium to attend an elite private, it is also worth it to pay a premium to attend an elite public for a degree in History.</p>

107

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<p>Her daughter’s “elite prep school” is Exeter, where you found ZERO evidence of anyone going to Alabama. In other words, as I suspected, SHE’S FULL OF ----.</p>

108

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<p>“After four rigorous years and $180,000 on prep school, we’re just tired of all these academic types challenging our boy…so we’re going to send him down to Alabama…where he’ll fit right in with all of the dumb Southern trash. And at the neighbor’s next cocktail party, we will be proud to say our boy is in not in Cambridge or Evanston or Berkeley…but in beautiful Tuscoloosa.” Sounds very plausible.</p>

109

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You represent U of M very poorly. By your same logic, why would anyone from an East Coast prep school be proud to send their kids to Berkeley? So they can brag about how their child can get to interact with a plethora of homeless people and community college transfers?</p>

110

<p>Lakeforest is not a student at Michigan, nor is he a Michigan alumnus. </p>

<p>But one thing is clear goldenboy, you represent Duke very poorly.</p>

111

<p>You seem to be very young, lake. With time you’ll learn that not everything is black and white like you want to make it. </p>

<p>Carry on.</p>

112

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<p>Berkeley is a diverse, but elite public university, often ranked among the world’s best. Alabama is famous for football and apparently aggressive scholarships in a desperate attempt to get anyone with any ambition to Tuscaloosa. Alabama isn’t in the same universe as Cal or Mich.</p>

113

<p>I am generally an advocate of accepting significant financial/merit aid packages when the two schools are roughly comparable. But in this case it seems that there is a very large difference between the institutions. If your son does, indeed, decide to pursue an academic career, then perhaps this would make little difference. Doing exceptionally well at Alabama would permit him to attend a top grad school in history. (Whether trying to find an academic job in history is wise given the number of faculty positions relative to the number of new PhDs is another question.) But if, like many kids, he changes his mind, then the portability of an Alabama degree is significantly less than that of a Michigan degree, certainly nationally but perhaps even within the southeast. Having lived in and worked in the financial sector in that region, there are some SEC schools that seem to have significantly stronger alumni networks than others, with Vandy, Georgia, and Ole Miss being at the top of the list, and then places like Alabama, South Carolina, and Florida a little bit lower. (And then there are the ACC schools, particularly UVA, UNC, and Duke.) For better or worse, connections in the southeast tend to remain very important. So it seems to me that the generous financial offer from Alabama comes with significant risk.</p>

114

<p>To be fair, there are plenty of excellent schools whose alumni network doesn’t extend throughout the United States. The only school with a truly national alumni base that will assist its graduates wherever their career may take them seems to be BYU. All others have their regional strengths, even if there may be some alumni representation throughout the country.</p>

115

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My point though is that although not everyone who attends an elite prep school is an academic superstar, a trait that is shared amongst all boarding/private high school students is a resentment of public schools in general due to their large class sizes, poor facilities, lackluster advising, and crowded housing situations.</p>

<p>Prep school grads would prefer to attend Pepperdine, GWU, or UMiami over almost any public school besides UVA. They could care less about “academic reputation”.</p>

<p>Alabama, just like pretty much every other state school, is filled with a lot of students from the state who are eager to get an affordable education, watch a few football games, join a fraternity, attend a few classes, and get on with life. There’s nothing wrong with that.</p>

116

<p>“Prep school grads would prefer to attend Pepperdine, GWU, or UMiami over almost any public school besides UVA. They could care less about ‘academic reputation.’”</p>

<p>Hmm. There is definitely a sliver of truth in that statement for <em>some</em> prep school grads from <em>some</em> prep schools. For those who want to have a good time and aren’t concerned about job opportunities (perhaps because they needn’t be worried about post-graduation finances or job opportunities), yep, that is often true. I went to school with some people who fit that mold exactly – and most of them are doing just fine, with the plans they laid out when they were 17. But, on average, most kids from elite prep schools do not have such means – or, perhaps more frequently, their parents would not accept going to a tier two or three private university. UVA and Michigan do very well among this cohort of students. Cal, despite being the top public by most measures, does less well for reasons that I still find baffling.</p>

117

<p>I don’t want to go too much into it, but Berkeley heavily favors grades. At the best Californian prep schools, the best students, who if they were going to a public school would probably “only” get into Berkeley, are able to get into the top privates so they go there. Other students, even those who have SATs way above UCLA/Berkeley’s average may not have a near perfect record owing to the best prep school’s policy of grade deflation, and if they apply to the UCs (which are a hassle IMO) would probably get rejected from the top tier ones but get into some very good privates. </p>

<p>At most other “normal” Californian private and prep schools students dream of getting into UCLA/Berkeley and the matriculation data supports this.</p>

118

<p>whenhen: I agree. BYU may have the closest alumni network of any university in the country, but certainly not the strongest. Outside of Utah, Oregon, Idaho, and maybe Washington state, it is relatively rare to find a significant number of BYU grads on hiring committees for financial services or law firms. And I say this with no intention of disparaging BYU grads. I have yet to meet one who is not sharp and amiable. But the overall influence of the BYU network is fairly limited.</p>

119

<p>whenhen: Would you consider, say, Harvard-Westlake, Crossroads, Pacific Hills, Harker, or Ojai Valley “normal” Californian private and prep schools? If so, I would be curious to know the yield for students from those students who applied to Berkeley. I suspect it is pretty high.</p>

<p>I also don’t expect these data to be very easy to access, so in some sense it is an unfair but, I think, useful question.</p>

120

<p>Exeter is not a special example, but I have access to that data and the most up to date matriculation data (Exonian.com) for 2013, which indicates that out of 311 in the class of 2013, students chose to attend these Public Universities:</p>

<p>Plymouth State
Univ of Mississippi
Louisiana State
Georgia Tech 2
Stony Brook
Montana State
Univ of San Francisco
Evergreen State
UC Berkeley 5
Colorado College
U Mass Amherst
Univ Arizona
Univ of Washington
Univ of New Hampshire
Ohio State
Univ of Utah
Univ of Wisconsin 2
Univ of Vermont
Univ of Nevada 2
Univ of Michigan 5
Univ of North Carolina
Univ of Virginia</p>