<p>“I got laid off last year”</p>
<p>Yup, that would strike fear into my heart too, and my dear spouse would not be wise to use the D word in my presence.</p>
<p>You son appears to be highly self motivated. He will be able to do well wherever he lands. Encourage him to like, but not love, the colleges on his list that aren’t guaranteed to be affordable, and to find at least one lovable financially safe institution.</p>
<p>Happymomof1 - thanks. I’ll try to encourage him to embrace the idea that he can have success at the big U in state - which I know he actually can. It’s just that his two (public sector employed, or not) parents have been indirectly sending the message his whole life that he needs to go out of state to a fancy school. We’re Georgetown, UChicago, Northwestern Law and UVA, and she’s from NY and I’m from Indiana - we both went OOS for school. But then, he’s probably smarter than both of us and he’ll find a way. Thanks for the sane advice.</p>
<p>I have one who went to CMU and one at Pitt. No envy or other issues there. Also if he moves through the Pitt computer science courses to the point that he wants one at CMU that is not offered at PItt, he can apply to take it there as there is an agreement between the schools, and he gets to do so at Pitt prices. The schools are truly right next to each other so taking courses at both is more easily possible than at other schools with reciprocity privileges.</p>
<p>As Waverly pointed out, not all ivies disregard home equity. Though you certainly should look at possibilities for merit and financial aid, make sure you do have those safeties in place. </p>
<p>All of you will be much better off if your retirement money is in place and there are not a lot of loans out there. You son’s college choices are varied enough that he’ll be fine, especially since he is a good worker and student.</p>
<p>Welcome to my world. I have a great kid who’s busting his ass - on overdrive, getting straight A’s (now) in all honors/AP classes (3.8 unweighted, 4.3 weighted), doing things like teaching himself calculus so he can take the AP and have it on his application, taking the japanese AP a year early for the same reason, plus loads more - and a spouse who invokes the D-word every time I broach the subject of him or us taking out loans as part of paying for college. Oh, and I got laid off last year and am only now getting my private practice cashflow going. Our house and both cars are paid off - paid cash for the second one - so we have almost zero debt.</p>
<p>OK… please do not fall into the misguided thinking that because a child “works hard” and (finally) is getting straight A’s and pulled a high ACT score that that justifies putting the family in debt. That is not a good idea, nor is it necessary…even more so after a bout of unemployment. </p>
<p>It’s a myth to think that all the very smart, hard-working students are rewarded by having parents drain savings or take out big loans to pay for a top name school. There are super smart kids at most schools. </p>
<p>Your child’s stats are very good, but those stats are a dime a dozen around CC and many kids with those stats did not attend elite schools or require debt to their parents. </p>
<p>I realize that you’re very proud of what you son has done so far, many of us have high achieving kids. My kids were Val and Sal of their classes with high test scores. They both chose large merit scholarships at a flagship. The older one is now in a fully-funded PhD program at an elite school and the other is applying to med schools this summer. All done without student loans or parent loans. And, believe me, they have worked their tails off throughout the entire process…not a B in sight since the 3rd grade.</p>
<p>Since your son will be going into a STEM major (CS), his classmates will be very smart at most schools. Don’t look at the middle quartiles of a big school and think, “hmm, there are some very avg kids at these schools and that means my son’s classes will be dumbed down.” The students who are STEM majors are largely going to be from the upper quartile of the school. STEM majors weed harshly those first two semesters so that those who don’t have what it takes, quickly change majors.</p>
<p>I ran the Cornell NPC; our EFC was $31k ($60k total cost). Only $7500 of est. aid package was loans - per year of course - but I think if it comes to it my spouse will buy off on it. Also re U of I; re happymom’s like-not-love comment, I suggested that he consider U of I - which does indeed have an amazing CS dept. - as 3 of 4 years, with his junior year @ Oxford or Cambridge. The U of I has an extensive intl. study program; most of the architecture student for example do their junior year in Versailles. He’s in school now but I suggested that in a FB msg; I let you know if that helps him like the in-state idea a bit more.</p>
<p>mom2 - Actually, I’m on our regional STEM advisory board and will be teaching this fall in the civil eng and architecture module. To his credit, our son knows that very very good and our excellent local public HS still puts him in a very large pool. He’s all over the numbers and the 25/75 percentiles. It’s why he’ll graduate with at least 9 APs; he know that his stray B in freshman history and sophomore English (both honors) lingers. He’s going to get someplace he likes because he’s unique rather than because he’s one of those 4.0/2400/36 kids.</p>
<p>Well done on the kids btw - a truly impressive flock.</p>
<p>Case Western also has a number of scholarships for those with high stats. He’ll have some good choices, Eric, thanks to his hard work, brains and perseverance. There are rewards for the way he has performed.</p>
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<p>Welcome to CC. when you get a moment, go over to the parents forum, where there are some knowledgeable parents help you identity schools. Look at the threads at schools known for good merit aid. Search through some of the threads where you will read positings by parents about their stellar gpa/sat kids getting shut out of the elite college admissions process. With admissions to the Ivies and other top schools now in the low single digits, no one is a lock anyplace.</p>
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<p>It seems like you do not have a straight forward financial aid situation. Some things to keep in mind:</p>
<p>Re: home equity, some schools do not consider it, some schools consider a percentage of it, 2x income or some other formula, some schools consider all of your home equity as usable to pay for college.</p>
<p>The CSS profile does ask for what kind of car you drive and how much you owe on it (in your case, you stated that your cars are fully paid).</p>
<p>You stated that you recently got your private practice cashflow going. Keep in mind that all f the write-offs that you take on your taxes associated with your business, will be added back in for financial aid purposes.</p>
<p>If you and/or your spouse are making contributions to your 401k/403b retirement account, while the monies in the account are protected, the contributions that you make during this year will be added back in as income and will affect your EFC.</p>
<p>Apply broadly to include schools where your son has a good chance of getting merit money and generous need based aid. However, you must also take a bottoms up approach and make sure that your son identifies a couple of most likely, sure bet, safety schools that meet the following:</p>
<p>You will be guaranteed admission
Preferably have rolling admissions/EA
Offers the program you are interested in pursuing
Is a financially feasible option for your family
And if this is the only school that you are admitted to (or that the money works out for) you would be happy to attend.</p>
<p>You stated that you recently got your private practice cashflow going. Keep in mind that all f the write-offs that you take on your taxes associated with your business, will be added back in for financial aid purposes.</p>
<p>Oh yes! Sybbie makes an excellent point. Those with various business related deductions do not do well with CSS Profile. Some of the NPCs clearly state that their NPCs won’t be very accurate if a parent is self-employed/independent contractor (or has a non-custodial parent). Yes, many of your deductions will be added back in as income.</p>
<p>Recently, a Cornell parent was PMing me because many of his wife’s Realtor deductions were added back, so it took away their estimated aid. They were very upset because they had counted on the aid that they had believed that they would get from the estimated NPC. They got no aid at all.</p>
<p>There are a lot of good threads about following the money. One of the best is <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/905843-top-student-3rd-tier-school-four-years-later.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/905843-top-student-3rd-tier-school-four-years-later.html</a> The original author is still semi-active here, so it would be OK for you or your son to send a PM for more direct advice.</p>
<p>The hardest things in this whole process are getting your head straight about the money issues, and then keeping it straight.</p>
<p>Thanks sybbie and of course mom2. I’ll go check out the suggested threads. Everyone on this thread has been great - not being alone is the most important thing. I’ll try to pay it forward once we’re through.</p>
<p>Through CC I found the amazing treasure trove of information that is the Common Data Set. Assuming most power members here have seen it, been there, done that, for any newbies (like me) Google “(name of school you’re interested in) Common Data Set.” In particular, re the FA questions, go to around page 20 or so when they break down just how much of which type of aid they provided, numbers of need-based students applying, and the all-important average amount of need-based aid for those need-based aid applicants. Wow. I started this thread looking at the University of Michigan. Compare, for example, the cost of Penn or Swarthmore (two privates I looked up) versus UMich on a per-student, average award basis.</p>
<p>Game over.</p>
<p>This is an incredibly important tool - and I have CC to thank for helping me find it!</p>
<p>But I thought what you got out of this thread was that applying to UM would be for potential merit aid. It’s pretty much a no brainer that as an OOS student, need based FA would be minimal at best.</p>
<p>ento - it’s clear that it would have to be merit-based, and that the opportunities for merit aid for OOS students would also be minimal since they get plenty of full-pay OOS applicants with the requisite numbers. There do however appear to be some interesting target scholarship opportunities at U Mich so we’re definitely not ruling it out just yet.</p>
<p>If your child’s stats are that high, do not rule out MSU. [Scholarships</a> for Incoming Freshmen](<a href=“http://honorscollege.msu.edu/scholarships/incoming_freshmen.html]Scholarships”>http://honorscollege.msu.edu/scholarships/incoming_freshmen.html)</p>
<p>He would be eligible for instate tuition and fees as long as he is in the top 5% of his class. Just something to keep in mind :)</p>
<p>romani - thanks; unfortunately (hindsight) he is going to a very competitive high school and, in every case where they’ve offered an Honors or AP option he’s taken it. The result is that he has a 3.77 (4.3 weighted) instead of a 4.0 so he’s not even in the top 10% - there are many kids who just took the regular classes and so their unweighted GPAs are higher.</p>
<p>Thanks, though - MSU is definitely on his list and we’ve already visited it. He’s interest in CS but with a focus on game design. MSU is one of the few that has a concentration in game design, but you have to apply and enter it as a junior so it’s not guaranteed that they’ll let you take all of the gamedev classes you may want. So like with the whole situation, he’ll apply (and apply for FA) and see what comes back.</p>
<p>Eric, though the Common Data set and other information you get is helpful in getting a good idea about the climate of financial aid , in general, it is an OVERALL picture. In the pixels that make up that picture, there will be those who get more and less. I have personally seen kids get their biggest aid or other award packages from the most notoriously stingy schools. At the end of the day, all that matters is what YOUR student gets, not the average, not the mean, or the mode or the guy down the street or anyone else. And that can only be established after he gets the award.</p>
<p>There are some absolutes: You know that you will not get merit money from a school that does not give merit awards. You also know how slim your chances are for a full ride award when a school like Duke has very few such awards and you look at the stats for the student body. But if you have a few schools that are highly likely to accept your son, and are definitely affordable, the safeties, as many call, them and make sure they are true safeties, you can go to town with the rest of the “lottery tickets”. We have had some surprises when we picked our batches. Some unpleasant ones as well, but, yes, we did beat the stats a few times in a good way.</p>
<p>My second one was very specific in what he wanted and he questioned his schools very thoroughly and directly right down to the departments and getting some stats, as to the availability of certain courses to him. The news was not good. There was not an admissions office that was on the mark about that. Sure, they said, you can cross departments and take courses in this and that. No can do, in many cases. What possibly be done, was just not doable. Many specialty courses have space available contingencies that assure that no one gets in except those in a specific program. We are in a situation right now with my current student where he is blocked from taking a course because he is in not in the “school” that offers the course, and the rules are set up so that there is only room for those in that “school”. He is putting in a request for the internal transfer, but until approved, he can’t even have a special request honored , and this is a very mainstream subject. None of this is made clear and I’ll bet admissions would not go into the nitty gritty of this. According to admissions it’s doable to take courses in any of the university schools and cross registering for courses is done all of the time. And it’s true for a certain percentage of the time and for certain courses, but Einstein couldn’t get into certain courses unless he was a declared major.</p>
<p>Captain, my captain, thou dost truly rock. It’s just been overwhelming the past 48 hrs - since I joined CC - like trying to drink from the proverbial firehose of parental and student info.</p>
<p>Re the Common Data Set info; while certainly as one poster said “your mileage may vary,” beyond any particular school or circumstance, some important trends are clear.</p>
<p>First; if he can get what he needs (different from wants) and can get into an Ivy or similar (like Swarthmore for ex), it is more likely we’ll be able to afford it than most state flagships OOS (Nebraska being a notable exception). The numbers are the numbers; if a school has X new freshmen and a high per student Y to spend in need-based scholarships and grants, it’s more likely.</p>
<p>Conversely, other than our in-state (UIUC) and a couple like Neb and Ala, the top OOS’s he’s looking at (UMich & MSU, UMD (College Park), Texas, Ga. Tech) just mostly have a significantly larger gap ($10k+) between the average aid they gave and their full sticker.</p>
<p>Also, it’s clear that we need to pay close attention to merit-based aid at those schools that offer it.</p>
<p>Bottom line, he needs to apply to a good range and then see what comes in the mail.</p>
<p>Texas, Ga. Tech</p>
<p>When you ran their NPCs, were you given anything? I’d be very surprised.</p>
<p>Are you including any schools that will give assured merit for stats?</p>