<p>Decision time has come for son to trim down list of colleges for Son. School counselor has chopped off many reaches and added the 3 above. We have this weekend to decide whether we should pick one or two of these since they are matches for him.</p>
<p>She has in particular advised us not to apply to any UC's particularly the ones that are reaches for son due to budget cuts. We will be paying in full and she thinks that it won't be worth the money.</p>
<p>Any parent/student please do give your views for son who is looking at a well rounded college experience, does not want to be too far from civilization and is interested in CS/math........so yes, sciences have to be good there. What are your experiences of the above colleges.</p>
<p>I live in Va and know kids at all three schools. It is hard to respond to a post without more info about the student, and without knowing what he is looking for. Each of the above colleges has strong points. UVA and Wm and Mary have at least 60% of students instate…that said…you can assume a large segments of instates are from Northern/VA (NoVa) DC beltway families. (Which means the instate students are often from transient families…so our state colleges are often pretty diverse re student backgrounds.)</p>
<p>Wm and Mary is a favorite destination for Middle Atlantic staters who are top students for the OOS slots. UVA tends to have a national footprint for the OOS spots. You have to be very competitive to get into either school OOS. The Univ of Richmond is not so strongly Virginia-based and its student body tends to be southern and Middle Atlantic stats. It is a small LAC really with a couple of strong masters programs and a law school on campus, too. </p>
<p>All three have lovely campuses.</p>
<p>There is no merit money to speak of anywhere in the three except at Richmond, which actually has some good merit options for those who go for it. UVA alum have a foundation for the Jeffersons…full rides…but this is a national competition annually. Wm and Mary has the Murray program.</p>
<p>If you are a Californian, you might be a bit of a novelty in the pool of applicants which can’t be a bad thing everywhere. You should follow Dean J’s UVA blog online to get a feel for admissions at UVA. Wm and Mary is a public school with almost private school size classes…it is a jewel. I would say that UVA and Wm and Mary have good reps at the graduate school level in many fields. Can’t comment on respective comp sci and Math but Wm and Mary is putting up new buildings and just opened a science building that is new…Richmond has upgraded their science buildings. </p>
<p>All three colleges enjoy connections to our nation’s capital that flavor the experience.</p>
<p>I’m not certain I would accept the “don’t apply” advice. It almost sounds dishonest, as though the counselor is shooing competitive applicants to where the counselor wants them to go. If you think you’d like to see what happens, apply where you want to apply. Its the counselors job to assist you, IMO, not tell you what to do. Frankly the idea that you will be paying in full should make you a highly desireable candidate…I’m very suspicious of this advice—telling you that it won’t be worth the money. And if you are in CA, obviously that would be a lot cheaper that going to UVA. Are you in one of those small private schools where they try to “broker” the class? I wonder. </p>
<p>As for the schools you mention, I believe the order of competitiveness would be UVA, W&M, and Richmond. UVa is quite competitive for OOS students, based on several years of observation. Past admissions have revealed a heavy mix of athletes with somewhat lower stats, legacies with very high stats, and others with extremely high stats. My gut reaction is that UVA cannot be considered a match for anyone OOS unless scores are over 1475 or so. Just my opinion based on some observations over recent years. </p>
<p>I think applying in the engineering departments will assist somewhat in admissions, but its hard for me to believe that some of the UC’s (Berkley obviously and probably others) don’t have superior computer science programs.</p>
<p>From your previous posts, I understand that your son is applying as an international student. I’m wondering why the choice is between applying to CA or VA public schools. OOS tuition is just about identical in both states - right around $32K/year. (The top-ranked public schools are really very expensive for OOS students - Michigan is even higher, at $35K.) </p>
<p>The VA schools are subject to budget cuts, too, though I don’t think any other state is in as bad shape as CA. This week, W & M announced that VA would cut its funding to the school by 15 percent. (Though W & M is a public school, state funding made up less than 18 percent of its budget last year; the new cuts bring that number to less than 14 percent). No word yet on where those cuts will be felt.</p>
<p>CS is a small major at W & M (20-50 graduates/year), though it does have a graduate program that confers masters and PhDs. I can’t glean much about the math program from the website, including the number of majors - there are about 20 full-time math faculty members (undergrad student body is about 6800). There’s a grad program in Math, as well. I love W & M, but I’ve been under the impression that the larger top-ranked publics are stronger in CS and math.</p>
<p>Since you’re looking for good sciences - W & M’s science program is strong. The Chem and Bio departments are large (don’t know about physics). Since you’re also looking for a well-rounded college experience - W & M certainly strives to provide that, with a talented student body, great diversity of ECs, terrific faculty, beautiful campus, and a pervasive sense of history. Some kids love the setting in Williamsburg, but some would definitely consider it “too far from civilization.”</p>
<p>We’ve visited the other schools you mention - both have beautiful campuses. Charlottesville is a particularly neat large town; Richmond has a real city feel. It also has a generous merit aid program, though I don’t know the extent to which international students are considered. Merit opportunities at UVA and W & M are very, very few. Good luck - hope you’ll provide more info about what your son is looking for.</p>
<p>Do you have a personal preference to attend a school in VA? There are so many other options out there. Univ. of Richmond costs approximately $52,000/yr right now and does increase each year. Is that the price range that you feel comfortable with in paying full fare? The school is small–3,000 and the campus feels quite isolated unless the student brings a car to campus. </p>
<p>Have you thought about expanding the location focus to other states? I’m wondering why your GC is directing you towards VA? In my opinion, before limiting yourself to VA, make a visit to the area. Try to look beyond the beauty of the landscape and look more towards the feel for the campus community and the availability/types of things to do on campus during the weekends (other than the usual drinking). Go online and look for the “Student Activities” or “Calendar of Events”. Go online and read their campus newspaper (be sure to look for the campus police blotter or police reports). Talk to people not associated with the admission’s departments.</p>
<p>^^^ Too late to edit my post #4, darnit. I meant to say that Richmond itself has a real city feel - UR is a jaw-droppingly beautiful campus in somewhat isolated, affluent area. </p>
<p>nysmile raises a good point about looking into campus police reports, which is something applicants should do for every school, not just the ones in VA :). There is crime on every campus, and it makes sense to have an idea of how frequent it is.</p>
<p>Strange list for an international, IMO. (Big Uni and in particular, a LAC?) What is the attraction to the state of Virginia? Family nearby? Financial aid?</p>
<p>While the UC’s do have some difficulties, you would be making a mistake to ignore Cal, UCLA, UCSD and UC Irvine (strong in comp sci). No recs are required, so you can ignore your GC’s advice. While you didn’t post your stats, if your son has the quals for UVa, he’d also be a strong candidate for Cal-Berkeley. And your GC is incorrect: with budget cuts, the UCs are seeking MORE full payors (and fewer instaters will be admitted).</p>
<p>Also, consider UMich, which is an easier admit than either Cal or UVa. In the international arena, Cal and UMich have a much bigger rep than the Virginia schools. UMich and the UCs are also much stronger in the sciences and engineering than is UVa (incl. math and comp sci.) OTOH, I believe UVa offers a better overall undergraduate experience than the UCs.</p>
<p>I definitely didn’t want to imply that there is a high rate of on campus crime. My suggestion to read the campus newspaper police blotter is to get a better idea for the campus environment. For example, campus vandalism and liquor incidences (such as the number of kids being transported to the hospital because of alcohol). My reasons for looking at the student events calendar is to give you an idea of what the college offers for activities for the students and the community. Usually, you can find this calendar on each individual college’s website by typing in “events calendar”. </p>
<p>While Virginia is a beautiful state, there are so many wonderful colleges out there if one broadens their geographic search. While the U of R does offer Merit Scholarships, they are reserved for the top students—very top students. Unless you are fortunate to fall in the “need” category, full fare is currently over $51,000/yr. and has been going up annually for the past few years. </p>
<p>IMO, you should expand your geographic search. In addition, financial cut backs are not limited to public universities.</p>
<p>We visited U of Richmond and W/M. DD found both to be isolated in different ways. U of Richmond is in a suburban area, not smack in the middle of the city. It is a lovely campus with many fine qualities, but our kid thought it was mighty conservative. W/M is also gorgeous. Its location in Williamsburg was not what my kid sought in a more urban location. In fact, she calls Williamsburg “Disney for Senior Citizens”. She hated the town (loved visiting colonial Williamsburg for a day or two…but not a go to place to live for four years…she felt it was a “lazy town”). </p>
<p>While both schools have “connections” to D.C., neither is particularly accessible to DC unless you have a car. And even then, it’s a bit of a hike to DC from either place.</p>
<p>As noted by others, UVA and WM are difficult admits for an OOS student.</p>
<p>S1 is a math/CS guy and we live in the mid-Atlantic. No VA schools on his list. UMich and UMD are much better regarded for math/CS, and UMD offers merit $$.</p>
<p>Agree that those are odd suggestions for CS/math. nysmile’s link looks like a good list. U-MD CP much better in that area if you want to be near DC. We don’t know the stats, but consider Case Western, Pitt or Rochester as low matches where there may be merit aid possibilities.</p>
<p>Three very good but very different schools. URichmond has a country club feel to it. U Virginia is excellent for a state research school. Very large and very spread out. Heavy Greek influence. Great sports scene in ACC. W&M has more of an Ivy feel. One of the most intellectual in the South. Very non-conformist attitude in student body. Admission difficulty usually has run, W&M, then UVirginia, then Richmond.</p>
<p>Cant lose with any one as long as you pick the one that matches you.</p>
<p>Son is applying as International since we live in Asia now - He is a US Citizen, lived abroad since a toddler. We have moved around (mainly asia and europe) quite a bit. He likes the city life but wants to be able to experience a good campus atmosphere as well.</p>
<p>The reason GC suggested these 3 schools since son gave her “no extreme cold” criteria. Even though he would relax that rule for MIT :)</p>
<p>She has also given high marks to Northeastern and has asked us to consider it since it would be perfect “college experience” for son according to her and also a match/safety.</p>
<p>We had many CA colleges on our list, son would love to be in that region because he has done the EPGY at Stanford and who does not love Stanford!? He is absolutely in love with that school, but we all know how that goes! Plus he is totally into the Tech world and cannot wait to be near the action. He has been doing some web design stuff since he was 12 (has worked on small projects with CA startups as a web designer) and now has 3 iPhone apps published. GPA is B/B+, SAT’s in the 2100+ range.</p>
<p>We have SCU on our list. Looking to put some UC’s on if UVa, U of R and W&M do not make sense for him. I read up on these 3 schools and they all look good but I had no gut feel coming out of that process, hence this post.</p>
<p>We have not visited any colleges except Stanford when we dropped him off the first year and then last year when we went back to NY, we briefly toured Yale, NYU and Columbia to give him a flavor of different campuses/location. He is not applying to any of these.</p>
<p>We do have UT Austin and Georgia Tech on the short list.</p>
<p>I have to say that I’m a HUGE fan of UVA and W/M for different reasons. I think UVA is the quintessential University experience…When you “think” of American State Universities in the abstract, as in fun and good professors and school spirit, this is the kind of place…any kid who doesn’t mind a big population or campus is really going to love it there! UNC-chapel hill and UVA are for sure my two favorite state universities, for this type of real atmosphere. People who go to these two schools mist up at even the “thought” of them later in life. It really is that good, all round.</p>
<p>W/M is a really fantastic school for a kid who wants a smaller and more unique set of kids…more intellectual, but still a lot of spirit. Because it is a state school and because it is not located in the Northeast, it can be really underrated in terms of what it offers the intellectual, creative kids. I think Virginia has just done a fantastic job with its public University system, truly.</p>
<p>(I’m from Chicago and did not attend either school, so it’s not personal.)</p>
<p>Don’t know too much about Richmond, but I know it’s well thought of as an undergraduate school. Lots of monied kids at that school. ;)</p>