<p>Basically:
-The average American teen is spoiled - Materialism in America.
-Parents need to make an effort to thoroughly educate on their own.
-Internationals feel more pressure to escape poverty (my parents, for instance!)
-Acting, modeling, etc. are seen as viable solns to money problems in America
-…while others believe academics is the way out
-American money is increasingly pulled away from education. Chris Christie - R. Governor of NJ comes to mind.
-So, so many other reasons.</p>
<p>For those of you talking about the wealthy internationals… Are you talking about the legit country public schools or those Intl schools? Because I’m pretty sure those American-run schools are pulling their scores down. My friend went to an Intl school in China and it was laughably easy, while another goes to one in England and seems to spend more time getting in trouble for being on Facebook than even pretending to make an effort to maintain her perfect GPA. </p>
<p>Warning. This pretty much just turns into a rant about the above stuff, didn’t feel like deleting all this writing.
<p>I’m too lazy to read through this entire thread, but in my opinion, the problem is not that we aren’t in class for long enough, but rather the time kids are in class isn’t used to its fullest potential. At my school, I’d say generally ~3/7 hours of the school day are wasted.</p>
<p>“The PISA results have caused consternation in the UK (they are Brits after all)
The results have caused an uproar in Australia (Aussies being much rowdier) even though they are well ahead of the US and UK.”</p>
<p>how do you know that these results HAVEN’T caused an “uproar” here in the states??? do you have an inside line into what’s being said within the dept. of education??? what are u basing this observation on? surely you aren’t basing this observation on what a few people have said here on college confidential?!?!</p>
<p>for the most part, people here are concerned with one thing and one thing only: getting their precious little gummyworm into a so-called top university. as long as that happens, adequate K-12 preparation for ‘those other folks’ (and their gummyworms) isn’t even remotely important.</p>
<p>Laziness, low expectations, lack of ability grouping/gifted education, and the constant need for Americans to feel good about themselves, whether warranted or not.</p>
<p>1) American families can afford video games and other distractions for students. They are marketed toward them constantly.</p>
<p>2) I agree with Sultan, parents are not making their greatest effort to assure their kids grow up successful. Kids don’t want to do work because they aren’t used to doing it, due to their parents “support”. I see kids all around me failing school. I ask what their parents say and the answer is always the same - they don’t care. </p>
<p>The American education system IS in decline. There is a clear divide between upper middle class students who excel in school and become successful. Then there is the other side, the lower middle class and lower class that have undereducated parents, creating undereducated kids. There is no middle between them, generally, either kids are really smart or really, uh, not smart. (Keep in mind we’re talking national averages when comparing, remember a C in school is average and the ACT average is something like a 20.) </p>
<p>Well yes I basing my comments mainly on the CC forum here since it is</p>
<p>i. A specific topic of discussion here with 200 + entries.
ii. A forum where the contributors are generally well informed, very interested in the US college system, and often are stakeholders in the same said system</p>
<p>But also, unlike the ‘debate’ that has been unleashed in the public sphere in the other countries mentioned, in the US it would seem the figures were reported in the media and then the whole story largely forgotten without debate on the causes, the implications, or possible remedy.</p>
<p>I don’t know if the US Department of Education is duly concerned or not…
But since its the parents who usually have a financial and familial stake in trying to procure the best college opportunities available for their ‘gummyworms’, I don’t think it unreasonable to be expecting some noticeable level of debate above and beyond those being had by government bureaucrats.</p>
<p>I feel that it is a cultural issue. Students who care about their education are stigmatized as ‘Nerds’ and ‘Geeks’. </p>
<p>I am a school teacher and it is interesting to see how often students will say “Oh I never study”, even if they actually do, just so that they can fit in with the crowd. We have pep rallies to honor our school athletes, but no similar events are held to give their peers an opportunity to honor academic achievers. Yes, they have an academic awards ceremony for students and parents at the end of senior year, but no acknowledgement from their peers.</p>
<p>Until academic excellence becomes “cool”, I am afraid this trend will continue.</p>
<p>I get so angry when people still use the excuse that it’s uncool to be smart. I don’t know where everyone gets the idea that being a nerd or a geek is uncool. If you’re just getting the idea from teen movies or tv sitcoms, you’re misinformed. (In fact, in many recent years “geek chic” has been evolving…Seth Cohen, anyone? Glee?) Yes, we in America love our sports, but I think kids who are smart are no longer stigmatized. The goal for every American student is to get into college, and if you act like you’re “too cool for school,” you’ll be headed toward failure in that respect. Although we have pep rallies for sports, at my school at least the achievements of academics were recognized in other ways (probably thankfully…who wants to go to a pep rally for the Mathletes?). if you’ve ever been to a high school graduation, you know that the top students graduate first and often give the speeches. Those who got scholarships are often recognized. At my school, it was cool to be smart. The only kids who were stigmatized were those who were mean or socially awkward. And I didn’t go to a private school…it was a huge football-centric public school.</p>
<p>The reason kids aren’t motivated to do well on these tests is that they don’t mean anything to them…not that they’re afraid of being labeled a nerd. In many other countries, the tests are the difference between going on to the next level of education and being placed in a vocational school. Many have already brought this up, but in America a test like this doesn’t mean you won’t get to continue high school. And when only the top students in a country are given the chance to take the test anyway…clearly the results will be higher than in this country where every student no matter how smart or dumb is taking it. </p>
<p>i’m not saying there isn’t anything wrong with US education…there is. But these international tests are just not an accurate measure.</p>
<p>^ yes, and no
It’s true that academic superstars are recognized, but it’s cooler to ace the test in 10 min and say you didn’t study than to acknowledge the hardwork that goes into it. The idea is that it’s ok to be brilliant, but it’s not ok to have a work ethic…
at some point, (ms, hs, college, or beyond) everyone hits that stage where “natural” intelligence isn’t enough and actually trying is required, for most people, that tends to be around the time these kids were tested, mid teens…
In other words, it’s not that American kids lack intelligence, it’s that even though it is now acceptable (it still isn’t admired) to excel academically, it must be done seemingly effortlessly.
Americans are still looking for the “easy way out” and for the kids who can’t pull off the effortless facade, it becomes useless to try because only the lack of effort is accepted.
I hope some of this was coherent.</p>
<p>Uhh, I don’t think these tests mean anything to anyone else either. I’m pretty sure they just take a sample of students from each country to get a rough estimate of how the country is doing overall.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I completely agree with this. A lot of people think I’m crazy because I’m considering being a teacher. Why? Because I go to MIT. I think this attitude is almost as toxic as the little emphasis so many people in the US place on education.</p>
<p>The top 1% of American students are doing very well but when the top 10% or top 5% of the students are compared to the rest of the world, definitely American students are lagging behind. The top 10% have to be good for the economy to improve. Also the top 1% could be from private schools, children of immigrant parents who bring their work ethics with them to the US or they could simply be geniuses! I don’t think a country can depend on these few people alone!</p>
<p>As someone quoted politics is ruining education and the changes have to be made at the elementary level.</p>
<p>Very well said ECazndb8r! My kids go to a school where “studying” is a bad word. Because it is easy to get good grades in Elementary everyone goes around thinking they are gifted and talented! Once you hit middle school, they have no clue how to work hard and go into shock that their brilliance(!) alone isn’t enough get through the Geo and Trig Honors class! When they reach this stage because they donot want to be seen studying they drop out of honors classes and make fun of the kids who stick around and do the work!</p>
<p>This is the culture, I assume in many schools across US. Elementary school has to get tougher to put the right work ethics into kids.</p>
<p>Honestly, if the test doesn’t count for my grade or affect me in any way, I don’t really put much effort into it. Flame away if you wish, but I know I’m not alone on this. Most people don’t feel the need to bust their butts on a test that affects them/benefits them in no way whatsoever.</p>
<p>I suppose foreigners actually care about these standardized tests and/or are administered them differently than us.</p>
<p>*Honestly, if the test doesn’t count for my grade or affect me in any way, I don’t really put much effort into it. Flame away if you wish, but I know I’m not alone on this. Most people don’t feel the need to bust their butts on a test that affects them/benefits them in no way whatsoever.</p>
<p>I suppose foreigners actually care about these standardized tests and/or are administered them differently than us.*</p>
<p>I agree with this- IMO, the schools ( private) who don’t have to test every other week- are able to actually teach- whereas there is so much testing in the public schools, that doesn’t seem to drive anything besides circular discussions about * what needs to be done* & throwing money at programs- but never evaluating why something didn’t work as expected- just turning right around and throwing money at a * different* program.
( which is why we end up with districts w top heavy administration & consultants up the wazoo)</p>
<p>…“I suppose foreigners actually care about these standardized tests and/or are administered them differently than us.”</p>
<p>The tests are for PISA use only. The test is anonymous.
The results are not and cannot be used by individual countries or regions for; student grading purposes; admissions to further education; or to target individual students performance.</p>
<p>PISA is not merely a test of academic ability; it was not designed to test excellence, memorised knowledge or particular aptitude for abstract academic reasoning. It tests the ability to complete exercises deliberately engineered to be highly relevant to real life. The tests cannot be ‘crammed for’ or learned by rote. The tests for science and maths are based on problem solving and real world applications. There are no specific texts utilised in the reading section thus no specific texts can be read or studied in advance. </p>
<p>So the test can’t be studied or crammed in advance.
Foreign students have no greater interest in completing an anonymous exam than their US counterparts.
The test can’t be administrated ‘differently’ from country to country…
since it’s a standardised test.</p>
<p>musicprnt, that was one of the best posts I have ever read. As more schools penalize (poor) students who don’t test well by eliminating arts and extracurriculars, it is not surprising the students continue to rebel against these tests.</p>
<p>For anybody interested in the PISA test itself, its make up, its applications , and results in greater detail (than perhaps an Op-Ed piece in the New York Times)…here is a pdf of the 2006 test report. </p>
<p>Since US students have largely maintained their mediocre results between the 2006 and 2009 tests perhaps the 2006 report can be considered at least a little relevant.</p>
<p>…And somehow the Canadian Government’s statistics department (Statistics Canada) has already complied and released their own assessment of the 2009 test vis-a-vis Canadian results</p>
<p>Well, this is based on children, not people as a whole. In the US, many idiot children will never go to college, which is fine, because there’s already too many people in the US going to college. But again, as stated, the US is too diverse to compare. If Japan or Sweden or Germany had an Appalachia or Arkansas or border state with a bunch of idiot Mexican children who couldn’t speak the language and didn’t belong there, its scores would be lower too.</p>
<p>I would welcome any standardized test in the U.S. (or several different tests) directed to economically homogenous sub-populations…Because I will take a cyber-bet that, except for truly top 1-2% of U.S. students, the ‘best-educated’ (let’s say top 10% of U.S. students) are not competitive with the same “class” of students in Canada, China, Finland, and probably many more countries. As my first post on this thread reported, scholastic inertia is the controlling dynamic of American teenagers – has been for 5 years minimum. Whether that inertia and underperformance is driven by peer norms or by a recreation-dominated culture which values no goal requiring effort, the fact is that underperformance on standardized tests is being supported by adults as irrelevant and inconsequential. I don’t know if that attitude is duplicated in other Western cultures, but I have little patience with it. To me, it is fundamentally dishonest to underperform, as much as it is to cheat: in neither case are you genuinely representing what your own personal knowledge base is, affirmatively. It also disrespects the need for a community (large or small) for data. The enabling attitude on the part of parents says to the student: Only put effort into what will serve you personally – your grades, your college admission results, your career, your bank account, whatever.</p>
<p>Note that the Chinese (Shanghai/Hong Kong) spend a lot less to achieve their results. It’s politically correct to blame resources, teachers, and socio-economic status when really parents and culture are probably the most important factors. The middle schools are luxurious and huge compared to many high schools in Hong Kong/Shanghai yet we blame “poor” facilities and throw in $$$$ to upgrade this and that…</p>