<p><em>sigh</em> again, what makes you think it’s so easy to play catch-up when everyone else is working just as hard, if not harder? What makes America so special? it’s easy to wish that everyone else would magically slack off and allow America to overtake - only thing is it won’t happen.</p>
<p>35 years ago you were not that behind. Also, did you <em>really</em> “catch up” from 35 years ago, or was it because America had the luxury of already being ahead? 35 years ago Asia was still pretty much a backwater. On the other hand, you can tell always that an empire is beginning to fade when its people resort to harping on 35 year-old past successes in order to feel optimistic about the future. You’ll know what I mean if you look at the Brits, who have long given up on optimism and have resigned themselves to just recalling century-old successes and dissing on colonies.</p>
<p>Let me try to phrase it in terms you might understand. Economically, the U.S. has become a turtle and China (and the much of the rest of Asia, perhaps with the exception of Japan) is now the hare. Of course you can’t (or choose not to) see how the U.S. is fading now, but no worries, you’ll surely see it in your lifetime.</p>
<p>I remember during the 60s and 70s when Japan’s economy was red hot and people feared that Japan would overtake the US, but then the bubble burst and Japan has remained stagnant ever since. Idk if you are Chinese or not, but don’t become too arrogant, China still has many problems that need to be addressed.</p>
<p>And somehow, despite all its own problems, the U.S. is exempt from the laws of nature, the laws of economics and most importantly, the law of gravity? c.f. Roman exceptionalism and British exceptionalism. If you’re going to be thick-headed about this then there’s no point arguing with you.</p>
<p>My point of reference to “35 years ago” is just based on my knowledge of where American 15 year olds were then: basically nowhere, internationally.
It didn’t matter then. It doesn’t matter now.
There is nothing hard about learning what people have already figured out.
Richard Feynman was very fond of a book on calculus by Sylvanus Thompson, because it had a prefatory remark something like “What one fool can do, any fool can learn.” (Sorry for the inexactness of this reference.)
Neither my friends nor I invented the calculus prior to studying it–for that matter, we didn’t invent trigonometry for ourselves, either. But we had no trouble learning it, once the ideas were introduced.
Anything covered in science or math courses up through about the second year of grad school is in actual fact quite easy to learn, and to learn pretty fast, for anyone who works at it. It’s when you find yourself at the border between established knowledge and the open frontier that the going gets rough. Everyone who works at it arrives there. Then we are all pretty much slogging apace.</p>
<p>^^ Of course the US has problems, but in your posts, you sound very arrogant about China, which has many problems, so, you can claim that I state that the US is a holier than thou country(which I haven’t in any post), unlike you, who claims that the US will fall and China will be the next superpower. If you are a Chinese international, I can understand your arrogance, rapid growth of one’s country can do that to a person, but please don’t believe that there can’t be two superpowers</p>
<p>More exactly, from Sylvanus P. Thompson, F.R.S., Calculus Made Easy: “What one fool can do, another can.” This is listed as an “Ancient Simian Proverb.”
It makes sense that the “winners” at one stage of education would like to think that the relative order is already frozen in by 15. This does not accord with observations, however.</p>
<p>Also, to address screwitlah’s question: How behind were we 35 years ago?</p>
<p>Well, 35 years ago, my high school didn’t teach calculus. I am pretty certain that students going into science in most European and Asian countries had studied vector calculus prior to college. Students in the USSR ran rings around us. European students in the satellite nations behind the Iron Curtain, ditto. Students in Germany, France, England–embarrassingly ahead. Students in Japan, yes again. Students in China–very probably, although I am not positive about that.</p>
<p>I am not writing about American hegemony, our status as a “superpower,” nor our economic position–just the limited issue of whether it matters that the average 15-year-old American doesn’t compare so well with the age cohort, internationally.</p>
<p>Why are you getting all riled up and defensive? If I appeared arrogant to you it’s probably because I touched a raw nerve and hit upon your insecurities - otherwise I’d just appear foolish, not arrogant. I believe every country has its problems, and at least you got one thing right - that the U.S. has many problems. I just hope you don’t think that the U.S. is magically exempt from being hampered by its problems, because that would be more than arrogance - that’s delusion.</p>
<p>It strikes me as even more naive that 1) the losers at any stage of education could think the order will always be fluid in their favor and 2) that being behind is okay at any stage and 3) a system that depends on a select few at the top having to play catch-up in college is a system worth having. Also, Americans in college do not play catch up because the internationals remain even stronger. Most Americans never get anywhere near the internationals in the same college. Since you’re a faculty member you should see that every day, and I’d be alarmed if you kept saying that’s a good sign.</p>
<p>@ post #357 by screwitlah. I don’t actually see that “Most Americans never get anywhere near the internationals in the same college.” However, I mainly teach grad students.</p>
<p>And what happened in the 35 years since was an unprecedented closing of the gap between America and the rising superpowers. That is as sure a sign as any that your classmates didn’t play catch-up - the other countries did.</p>
<p>screwitlah, as mentioned previously, I am not talking about international power levels, nor economic levels. I am talking about where science comes from. Young Americans (those of high school age) were unquestionably well behind their age cohort internationally, in terms of any measure of scientific accomplishment. When they became adults, they weren’t behind.</p>
<p>Top graduate programs other than those in the humanities often see few or no Americans. Of course, you might say that this was also true 35 years ago, but a rational person wouldn’t take comfort in that.</p>
<p>screwitlah, I meant that adult American scientists are not now behind those in other countries, although they were “behind” as children.</p>
<p>As for your claim about “top graduate programs other than those in the humanities often [seeing] few or no Americans,” I don’t believe that is so. I can’t seem to access the grad student directories of the other university departments that I tried (due to FERPA restrictions), but this doesn’t accord with my view of the rooms when I give seminars, nor with the group of grad students I meet at conferences (in quantum mechanics).</p>
<p>I don’t dispute that the best scientists are still found in America. But I daresay the abilities of the average person are among the factors slowing America down.</p>
<p>Interestingly it’s true where I am. Even as an undergrad, I’ve found that the best way to make international friends is to drop by the grad students’ offices. In my major I’ve not had a single American TA. My friends in other majors are all saying the similar things.</p>