<p>If I followed the links correctly I found the really cool fact that Poland, the most underrated country in history, beat us on at least two of the tests.</p>
<p>Do they tell American jokes in Poland?</p>
<p>To Bird Rock</p>
<p>No…but maybe they will start telling them soon ;)</p>
<p>I don’t really want to get involved in the thread but I did want to point out…</p>
<p>[List</a> of countries by GDP (PPP) per hour worked - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked]List”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked)</p>
<p>Ultimately why a well educated populace is important is because a well educated citizens are capable of being more productive than an uneducated citizen. The US seems to be doing well in terms of productivity. </p>
<p>Norway is very rich in natural resources which helps account for why it is so high. Luxembourg’s economy is primarily based on financial services, which obviously would be impossible to replicate in a country the size of the US.</p>
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<p>You betcha they do 
And I absolutely love your comment about Poland being the most underrated country in history!
What is the difference between Poland and USA? There is no No Child Left Behind program there. Teachers can concentrate on bright, motivated students. Parents of bright kids do not have to do all the work, as opposed to US. The kids in HS know that there is a difference in taking Calculus and a cooking class!</p>
<p>Understand that the impact of this particular test will not be felt, in terms of productivity, for another generation.</p>
<p>And if the test results continue on their slow downward spiral, comparative to other countries, then US productivity will follow the same route.</p>
<p>This will have a cumulative effect compounding year after year.
It will also have a ripple effect in all other parts of US society</p>
<p>If US productivity decreases so does
Competitiveness, and in turn
Innovation
Investment
GDP
Standards of living (just to name a few)</p>
<p>Go on!..Ignore those test results!
The US is a world leader now…what of the future?</p>
<p>“Understand that the impact of this particular test will not be felt, in terms of productivity, for another generation.”</p>
<p>Were we doing better 15 years ago against countries like Japan and Western Europe?</p>
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<p>Maybe, but that misses the point. The average American student used to be among the best. </p>
<p>Increasingly our educational system, like our economic system, is diverging – a relatively few “haves” and everyone else falling off the back.</p>
<p>if someone scores below 1500 in the SAT, he or she should not be allowed to vote because he or she is illiterate</p>
<p>Vladenschutte:</p>
<p>In 2000 the US was
15 in Reading
24 in Math
21 in Science</p>
<p>About the same when compared to the current 2009 test.
Not worse…but not getting better either
Do you think that America is in a better position, as a society, comparative to the rest of the OECD now when compared to 2000?</p>
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<p>Not EVERYONE is gonna be an innovator. Some people will be maids, and some people will be waitresses, and some people will collect the garbage. That’s fine. But it means that it’s artificial to look at the averages of our students across the board, find them low, and decry the future of American society. The future does not rest on the average student. The future rests on the best and the brightest.</p>
<p>Quomodo</p>
<p>So as educational standards decline then more American students will become waitresses and garbage collectors?
Fine.
More places for foreign students in US universities in the future!
American students obviously won’t be needing the placements.</p>
<p>I wonder if the fact that kids with LDs (and similar issues) are weeded out of education much sooner in some other countries is any kind of a factor in dragging that average down (among other probably more significant things, of course). I have had problems with foreign instructors not being able to understand why they should be obligated to have me in their classes. Just something that occurred to me when someone mentioned the diversity of our educational system.</p>
<p>America is rotting, a fact concealed by complacency and a superiority complex.</p>
<p>As a whole, yes America is predominantly stupid. However, when we consider the brightest students, we still reign supreme. We have the world’s best universities. It’ll just be an issue when the rest of these uneducated idiots start wanting decent salaries…oh the masses.</p>
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<p>Who cares? It’s not the top .1% that determines our Senators, Congressmen, and President. It’s the people, and they’re becoming more incompetent and just plain stupider by the minute. Last year, Americans almost voted Sarah Palin into the Vice Presidency.</p>
<p>Plus, are you really asserting that the people in leadership positions are going to be the best students? They’re not. They’re average intelligence. (Have you seen the SAT scores of the two presidential candidates for 2004? Kerry and Bush both had SATs lower than 1300.) If the average American intelligence is declining, then so will the average intelligence of our leaders. We can already begin to see this happening in politics. Be afraid. Stop making excuses.</p>
<p>"Do you think that America is in a better position, as a society, comparative to the rest of the OECD now when compared to 2000? "</p>
<p>That’s the wrong benchmark. Are we in absolute terms worse? </p>
<p>It’s like saying country A is improving, but countries B, C, and D are improving faster so therefore country A is really declining. It not true.</p>
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<p>You are kidding, right?</p>
<p>In 2000, unemployment rate was about 4%, it is almost 10% now.
National debt was about 5.5 trillion in 2000 and is about 13.5 trillion now and growing rapidly.</p>
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<p>Cultural differences. Students at smaller countries may see doing well on a test as a matter of pride whereas US students might just be putting in the smallest amount of effort necessary.</p>
<p>A couple of points here:
- China Shanghai team is not your average kids just pluck out of the street. They are made of selected few. In china, best schools are selecting their student by rigorous entrance examinations. I doubt we do the same for the participants for the test.
- Indeed, in this country, kids are not encouraged to study hard and get ahead. They are considered nerd and outcast. This is a culture problem that need to be fixed.
- The reason why we are still ahead in science and technology?
a. Historical reason. we have been strong for the past 60 years. it will take a while for us to be a lager, like the UK today.
b. US is still a magnet for the best and the brightest of young immigrants. Just go to the Silicon Valley and see who are establishing new technology companies.
c. Just check out at Berkeley, MIT, Caltech, Harvard. Count the percentage of kids came from other countries, or see how many are first or second generation of immigrants.</p>
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<p>I am amazed that the surveyers didn’t thnink about that. How do you compare Shanghai to a country? May I suggest it’s the surveyers who are really underperforming? That also makes me wonder how do they choose participants in other countries. Is it a random sample or do countries hand pick who will participate?</p>