<p>Atlanta: Really? About BSC? That was right before it hit the fan for them because they gave out too many merit scholarships.</p>
<p>there can be other ways … here is a program from unc…(a school ranked in the top 10)… could some of the endowment money at alabama schools (all of the more expensive ones not just ua) be used to develop programs like this? certainly hasnt hurt unc’s rankings (and is top 20 rank going to necessarily make an alabamian proud if there is no possibility of attending) </p>
<p>[Carolina</a> Covenant](<a href=“Carolina Covenant - Office of Scholarships and Student Aid”>http://carolinacovenant.unc.edu/)</p>
<p>Maybe when UA has a $2.2 Billion endowment it could do something. Also, the state of NC also provides aid which makes the Carolina Promise easier to supplement need.</p>
<p>A lot of this comparing requires looking at the details.</p>
<p>In Calif, the STATE (not the univ) provides Cal Grants to cover ALL of tuition for those who qualify (often incomes of about $60k or less). </p>
<p>The UC’s then overcharge those who earn more than $80k per year so it can take some of that overcharge and further give more aid to those in need. (Those who earn $80k or less get free tuition). </p>
<p>It’s a real kick in the pants for someone earning $82k to have to pay $14k per year for tuition (aka fees), while his $79k neighbor gets his UC tuition free. :(</p>
<p>I think “no possibility to attend” is a touch dramatic! Flagships will always be available to in-state kids who deserve to be there.</p>
<p>My guess would be that Michiganders and North Carolinians and Virginians are very proud of their flagships. I know I would be…</p>
<p>Bigdaddy, I don’t think you’re aware of just how closely correlated wealth and SAT scores are. If UA makes its flagship prohibitively expensive for IS students who happen to have a great deal of promise but didn’t have the SAT scores needed, then it is off limits to them. </p>
<p>As a Californian, one of the reasons I’m so proud of my flagship system is that it tries its hardest to make attending the school possible for everyone who qualifies. It looks like Bama doesn’t do that, and instead prefers to take upper middle class OOS students who do have other options. To me that seems like a total rejection of everything a state flagship stands for.</p>
<p>* I remember reading an article about six years ago, in which the president of Birmingham Southern was complaining that UA was taking the top students now. He actually argued that UA had an obligation to take in the lower scoring students and that elite private schools like his, should be the destination for those top high school students.*</p>
<p>lol…this was the guy that BSC had to fire when it was uncovered how poorly the school handled financial matters. If it weren’t for alumni money saving the day, the school would have really been in deep doo doo.</p>
<p>and, since so many top scoring students are in engineering, BSC would never be their choice.</p>
<p>When…</p>
<p>The UCs couldn’t do what they do if…</p>
<p>The low-middle income students weren’t all given free tuition from the STATE. The UCs aren’t doing that, the STATE is. And, of course, the state is broke, so who know how long this will last.</p>
<p>It’s much easier to “meet need” when the entire tuition is FIRST covered by the state. And, then it overcharges everyone else to provide more grants. (The UC’s went from about $8k per year to about $14k per year almost overnight!)</p>
<p>:rolleyes:</p>
<p>bigdaddy… agree might have been a touch dramatic… but look at the average income in this state, (family approx 34-43K) with the state flagship having the highest tuition and no institution need aid… and again the other bigger al state schools are no better. and the rural school systems often do not make instate students competitive for the merit awards in some cases… our school system offers NO ap classes, no education regarding act or sat scores and what that can mean.</p>
<p>Also, when the state of CA runs short of money and cuts funding to the UC system the colleges have no qualms about admitting OOS students over instate to get the money they need.</p>
<p>[Lure</a> of Chinese Tuition Pushes Out Asian-Americans - Bloomberg](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)</p>
<p>. our school system offers NO ap classes, no education regarding act or sat scores and what that can mean.</p>
<p>What is “our” school system? are you talking about YOUR school district? Because you’re certainly not talking about the entire state.</p>
<p>yes m2ck… i am talking about the school system where i live, a rural area…</p>
<p>I guess I see the role of the flagship differently. To me, in a perfect world, the state flagship would be the “best” school in the state. It would be the school that the cream of the crop in-state kids strive to attend and a dream school for high achieving OOS kids. </p>
<p>I think each state should be concerned with the rural and inner city low income kids. There should be good alternatives for those families. Directional schools, Alabama State, schools like that.</p>
<p>*I guess I see the role of the flagship differently. To me, in a perfect world, the state flagship would be the “best” school in the state. It would be the school that the cream of the crop in-state kids strive to attend and a dream school for high achieving OOS kids. *</p>
<p>Exactly. This idea that any instate student should be accepted/funded is a bit nutty. People keep comparing Bama to X flagship and Y flagship…but those flagships are highly selective and keep a whole bunch of instate kids out. They outright reject them.</p>
<p>Heck, in the state of Texas, if you’re not a top % student (8%?), your chances of being admitted are slim. </p>
<p>In Calif, to get into UCLA or Cal, you have to be the best of the best. </p>
<p>This idea that Bama is supposed to accept everyone who wants to go, and fund them, is ridiculous…especially when the state isn’t providing any “state aid” for the lowish income.</p>
<p>A flagship shouldn’t be expected to accept lowish stats students because then the classes would have to be dumbed-down so that those kids don’t flunk out.</p>
<p>that is not what i am saying at all m2ck!! i said IF they meet admission requirements… i also said my question was that no institutional grants are available, yet merit aid is found… i never said anyone who wants to go, i never said fund them all for their full pantries. geez, it was a question about what is the goal of a STATE school… to provide education to oos students or to help students from their own state equally, despite their economic status… if as you claim every single day, that this school is so wonderful, then shouldnt all in state students that are qualified aspire to go (as bigdaddy stated above)?? or as you are saying…well if you cant afford to go, go to a “lesser” school. i was looking for alternatives…and you wont convince me that money could not be shifted a bit to help some of these qualified (except financially) students if they (the schools) really wanted to</p>
<p>Did I address my response to you? No.</p>
<p>Parent…you really should take this matter to the state. That’s where the aid should come from. OTHER state schools that provide good aid to low income students have their state gov’ts providing the money.</p>
<p>Bama’s endowment just isn’t yet big enough. Getting top students on campus increases the school’s profile. Eventually, the endowment will be big enough to provide some kind of grant program for low income instate kids. However, it really is the state’s job to FIRST be providing those grants.</p>
<p>I don’t recall anyone saying to admit anyone who wants to go. Or to pay every dime of a student’s social life. Why does the discussion have to be all or nothing? </p>
<p>Providing an increasing amount of need-based aid is surely one option as the university makes gains in other areas. Even in state students who qualify for partial merit may have trouble graduating without getting need-based aid. I’d be interested in graduation statistics for in-state students receiving merit and no-merit, qualifying for Pell grants, etc.</p>
<p>oh i have m2ck… spoke with a number of state officials, the usual reply, no monies available, that is why i question a possible change in the distribution of some of the funding, ie you could change some of the donor funding, the sports licensing monies etc. it isnt impossible, its just a choice they are making. </p>
<p>agree it is happening in many states…and i am sure was upsetting to those parents who have chosen ua over their own in state school (which gave them better merit than their own state school… or accepted them because their own state school wouldnt) … but as with other things…just because it is happening elsewhere doesnt mean we should go down the same path</p>
<p>Bama could do what the UCs have done, and that’s nearly double tuition so that the excess can become grants for the low income. However, the screams you’d hear if that ever happened would be deafening. It would make the PACT amounts near-meaningless, since those who expected to pay nothing, who are now paying “some,” would then be paying about $8k per year for tuition…essentially wiping out any meaning to prepaid tuition.</p>
<p>The devil is in the details. The money has to come from somewhere. If the state’s taxpayers won’t provide these low income grants, and schools are expected to provide them, then they’ll raise tuition and siphon off some from there.</p>
<p>Why does it have to be an either/or? Can’t UA be the highly selective crown jewel of the Alabama higher education system and the other state sponsored schools be there for the kids who are a notch below?</p>
<p>In TN we have UT-Knoxville which is getting more selective AND we have schools like UT-Chattanooga, UT-Martin, Austin Peay, ETSU, etc.</p>