UA Merit Money

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
81

<p>what if you are a “notch” below because you dont have access, to those things that put you in the notch? </p>

<p>2011: [Alabama</a> Department of Education Press Release](<a href=“Alabama Department of Education Press Release”>Alabama Department of Education Press Release)</p>

<p>in 2010 only 19.5% of alabama students took ap exams only 9% got qualifying scores
number drops to 14% for low income students and only 7.4% got qualifying scores.</p>

<p>this is older but point can be seen…take a rural state and add in a rural areas of the state:[Lack</a> of AP Courses Holds Rural Students Back | Daily Yonder | Keep It Rural](<a href=“http://www.dailyyonder.com/lack-ap-courses-holds-rural-students-back]Lack”>http://www.dailyyonder.com/lack-ap-courses-holds-rural-students-back)</p>

<p>2011…birmingham schools are getting programs (not rural) [20</a> Ala. high schools join AP programs participation list - Mass Math & Science Initiative News | Mass Insight Education](<a href=“http://www.massinsight.org/news/85/]20”>Page not found - Mass Insight)</p>

<p>3 days ago: settlement in lee county (rural) to help AA’s get access to ap classes:
[Education</a> Depart., Alabama District To Promote AP Classes To Blacks | News One](<a href=“http://newsone.com/2716162/lee-county-schools-al-ocr/]Education”>Education Depart., Alabama District To Promote AP Classes To Blacks)</p>

<p>your answer may well be then they shouldnt go to the flagship, or they arent qualified to go to the flagship, but to call them a notch below may be misleading…they havent had the opportunity.</p>

82

<p>Alabama has those other schools, too. Alabama has a large number of publics considering how small its population is.</p>

<p>The chosen path seems to be… get the school’s profile up with higher stats students, get better profs, get better research grants…alums will be impressed and donate…endowment will grow…and then more aid for low income.</p>

<p>If the goal had first been to increase aid for low income, Bama never would get there.</p>

83

<p>I’m not willing to pay IN-STATE for UNC.</p>

<p>AMEN!!! Our sentiments exactly. That’s exactly why DS is at Bama.</p>

84

<p>Sorry for ignorance, but what does SES mean?</p>

85

<p>social economic status</p>

86

<p>maybe i have selective memory…but i dont recall doing all this with the end goal to then be providing aid to low income students in dr witt’s mission statement. if someone has the link, would be glad to re-read it. i do remember goals of being the school for the best and brightest, for recruiting oos students with high stats, increasing enrollment, becoming a tier 1 research university. but not a specific mention of aid for low income students</p>

87

<p>I’m not saying that it is written anywhere. I said that it “seems to be” the path…because w/o state aid, there really isn’t another path to get to the point of being able to sustain giving need-based aid. </p>

<p>When this all started, the endowment was half its size. As noted above, the schools that give generous need based aid to low income students have endowments in the billions. </p>

<p>That said, certainly, Dr. Witt knows that low income students need help. But, sometimes to get to the point of being able to give (and sustain giving) help, the school needs to boost its endowment, boost its image to Alums, etc. </p>

<p>Dr. Witt is foremost a business expert. He knew that he could get businesses and other deep pockets to cough up money if the goal was to amp up the school’s profile by offering large scholarships to high stats students. Sen. Shelby also likely had that vision which is why he’s funneled all that money to Bama to build the Science and Eng’g Complex. </p>

<p>It’s a domino effect…get top stats students on campus, build better facilities, then it’s easier to hire better profs when you can put smart kids in the seats of state of the art buildings, the better profs attract more research grant money, the middle quartiles rise, the school’s profile improves, more money rolls in. Little to none of that happens if the first goal is to fund low income students. That may be harsh, but that’s the hard truth.</p>

88

<p>My niece and nephew grew up in a rural area and went to a rural, county high school. Neither my brother-in-law or sister -in-law are college grads and both of these kids got ino good schools. One is a frosh at U Delware on the 5 year P.T. Track. UD is ranked in the top 3 for P.T. My nephew is soph enrolled at RIT and is studying electrical engineering.</p>

<p>They self-studied for several AP classes and got 4’s and 5’s on all the tests. They bought study guides and self-studied for the SAT’s. They took online college classes like the ones offered at UA’s Early College. They participated in many state sponsored educational endeavors like Model UN and Governer’s School. They also joined or started clubs and did volunteer work. It can be done…I’ve seen it with ny own eyes.</p>

89

<p>congrats to your niece and nephew…that is a great achievement</p>

90

<p>Thanks. We’re pretty proud! But I wasn’t bragging. I was pointing out that living in a rural area doesn’t have to be an obstacle. As a matter of fact, they learned some valuable lessons that are easier to learn living in the middle of nowhere. My nephew volunteered at the local firehouse from the time he was about 10. He started a club of sorts that encouraged local youths to spend time volunteering at their firehouses. They would hold carwashes and other fund raising events. His little club is in every high school in the county now. Their main focus is to provide a fire dog for every station. They raise money to care for and feed the dogs. OK, now I’m bragging!</p>

<p>BTW my niece is OOS at Delaware.</p>

91

<p>Game time! ROLL TIDE</p>

92

<p>Let’s review some facts. First, UA does not have the highest in state tuition, AU does. But most of the other schools have significantly lower tuition than both UA and AU. Second, despite the increased admissions standards at UA, it is still enrolling roughly the same number if not more of in state students as before Witt started his push for growth. The big difference of course is in the number of oos students now enrolling. So is UA really denying that many qualified in-state students the chance to enroll? Seems to me that education at a flagship university is becoming increasingly out of reach for the lower and middle class of the entire nation. I guarantee you that there are more lower to middle income students at UA than UCLA, for example. Anyone who thinks that UA can raise its prestige via a focus on need based aid is quite simply delusional.</p>

93

<p>i was using the net price numbers gator88 posted:
Average Net Price by Income (0 to $30,000)
UA =$16,685</p>

<p>Auburn =$11,380
Troy U = $11,235
UA-Birmingham = $12,457
UA-Huntsville = $9,325
U of South Alabama = $8,972</p>

<p>i guess i am not making my point clear…not a focus, not ONLY, not instead of, not just UA,… just saying it would be a good thing for alabama schools to find a way to provide SOME institutional grants for low income kids…many of you have said that it’s delusional, ridiculous etc… fine. i still believe that some of the donor money, sports money etc, could be used in part for institutional need based loans or grants. its used for merit aid, it could be used for need aid… if ucbalumnus numbers are correct…it appears to be about a 5-13k gap for these students per year…yet you have no problem with a merit award of 30k per year. different views…we can agree to disagree i hope?</p>

94

<p>Donor money must be used for whatever it was requested for. If donors were told that their dollars would go to bring in top students, then that must happen. </p>

<p>I guess the issue is “which needy students” would get the money? Virtually anyone with an EFC of about $10k or below would be gapped. Should Bama focus on low income/higher stats kids? </p>

<p>We don’t know if Bama has done the math and realizes that (right now), diverting “some” merit money for need, will only be a small dent for some needy kids…not enough to make a difference. </p>

<p>Also, keep in mind that Bama is a FAFSA only school. Maybe it should become a CSS school with NCP info to determine who really is needy. No need to divert funds to a 0 EFC kid if his NCP is affluent.</p>

95

<p>

</p>

<p>No surprise, since the only aid it offers is federal aid, not any aid of its own.</p>

<p>Of course, some schools meet need with institutional financial aid beyond federal aid using FAFSA only. Examples:</p>

<ul>
<li>University of Virginia</li>
<li>University of Michigan (meets in-state need only)</li>
<li>University of California (meets in-state need only)</li>
<li>University of Washington (meets in-state need only)</li>
</ul>

96

<p>^^^all of the above Universities (all state Flagships) are more selective, having a lower percentage of Low SES students and offer little in way of merit awards. Schools like these (and UGa and UF) don’t have to offer much merit to recruit high performing students, so are able to put more resources toward low SES students (but being more selective, there are fewer low SES students that need aid… the these low SES students all have high stats). </p>

<p>Also, when these schools do offer financial aid, it’s to in-state low SES students. It’s based on in-state tuition, so the aid is a few thousand dollars (a lot from the perspective of an in-state student!). Compare this to a full tuition merit award to an OOS student.</p>

<p>Back to UA (the following is ALL speculation), I can’t help but believe the high cost for low SES students (about $5K more than other in-state public schools) is being done on purpose. They “may” want to reduce the percentage of low SES students attending the University, since these students tend to be lower performing/less prepared (lower grad rates, etc.) and it frees up slots for OOS students. UA can’t limit access yet through selectivity, so it’s being done through cost. Note that high performing SES students would still receive generous merit aid, so this really is impacting “average” low SES students.</p>

<p>It doesn’t feel “fair” but all of the above state flagships are doing the same thing, but through selectivity (UW to a less extent). As UA’s standards increase, the same effect will take place.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t be surprised if the state legislature gets involved (as they have in Georgia and Florida) and dictates that UA starts offering financial aid to low SES students. For example, in Florida, UF was only allowed to raise tuition (15% at a time…) if 1/3 of that additional tuition went toward funding additional financial aid for in-state low SES students. For this reason, cost for a low SES students is less at UF, than at the other state universities (of course, UF is still the most selective, so we’re talking about high performing low SES students… so UF is more than happy to have them enroll). </p>

<p>On the other hand, the high cost for low SES students could just be something that’s came about naturally, as UA focused on OOS students, while the other state universities focused on in-state students. Either way, I would expect it to be addressed in the next few years.</p>

97

<p>alabama state legislature can not make them do anything, it would require a change to the constitution.
[UA</a> System](<a href=“University of Alabama System | UAS”>University of Alabama System | UAS)</p>

<p>believe me that issue of “making the school” do something was fully addressed during the pact debacle when they were asked to reduce tuition increases per year to about 3.5%</p>

98

<p>*No surprise, since the only aid it offers is federal aid, not any aid of its own.</p>

<p>Of course, some schools meet need with institutional financial aid beyond federal aid using FAFSA only. Examples:</p>

<ul>
<li>University of Virginia</li>
<li>University of Michigan (meets in-state need only)</li>
<li>University of California (meets in-state need only)</li>
<li>University of Washington (meets in-state need only)*</li>
</ul>

<p>What???</p>

<p>BOTH…University of Virginia AND University of Michigan are on the list of CSS Profile schools…go to the CSS Profile link…they’re listed there. <a href=“CSS Profile – CSS Profile | College Board”>CSS Profile – CSS Profile | College Board;

<p>And UMich requires NCP info</p>

<p>Both UWash and the UC’s benefit by having large amounts of STATE aid to give to low income students. UCB…you seem to keep ignoring that very significant fact. </p>

<p>Look at Calif…all those who earn under $80k get free tuition…it’s much easier to meet need to low income when the state is handing over free tuition.</p>

<p>And, AGAIN, you seem to be ignoring the fact that those schools have much larger endowments. </p>

<p>Between the state aid that’s provided AND large endowments…the money is coming from a source that Bama doesn’t (yet) have. </p>

<p>Stop comparing apples with oranges. Jeez!</p>

99

<p>Oh…and BTW…over 80% of UVA’s students would qualify for merit scholarships from Bama…so those students would be getting institutional aid that would go towards need. The other less than 20% are probably athletes…lol.</p>

100

<p>@parent56,</p>

<p>I’m not very knowledgeable on UA’s governance, but I would think that as long as UA has to ask the state for appropriations, the state will have some influence on how that appropriations is spent. Something like, “if you want $X, then we want $Y given out as financial aid”. It would play out during negotiations over that year’s appropriations. UA may even be the one that raises it as an option, in an effort to secure $X. It’s something of a political process.</p>