UC Alumnus & Parent of Two UC College Kids - ASK ME ANYTHING!

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - GENERAL
21

Class sizes can often be gotten from on-line class schedules. Anyone who cares about what they are for a given college and major courses should try looking for that.

The non-resident tuition at UC is quite high, and there is no non-resident financial aid except in conjunction with some difficult-to-get merit scholarships, so that alone should deter many non-residents, regardless of class sizes.

As a practical matter, would a class of 100 be significantly more interactive than a class of 500 or 1,000?

Also, some of the exalted-on-these-forums top private colleges have some very large classes. For example, the introductory CS class size is 700 at Stanford and Harvard, and 200 at Harvey Mudd (which is in the favored-on-these-forums category of liberal arts colleges).

22

Once you get into the hundreds, I agree it doesnā€™t really matter any more in terms interactiveness. Thereā€™s a much better ratio in the course discussion/sections, though thatā€™s with a TA rather than a professor. My UCLA kid and my experience is itā€™s really the lower division intro courses that are large, once you get into upper division major requirements itā€™s regular sized. I donā€™t mean to portray large classes sizes too negatively, itā€™s really not that bad, part of the college experience. My UCB kid is in FPF so their class sizes are small (not that it matters since itā€™s online), but they did mention they do get prompt responses from their FPF advisors.

23

@aggies1989 I absolutely agree that you have to be willing and able to seek out help and resources in order to thrive at a big school like those in the UC system. My D20 (UCB honors) was also a public school kid and not used to getting her hands held at all at her HS. She met with a counselor exactly once, who basically told her the tiers of rigor with regard to the number of AP classes needed to be taken. Six apparently wasnā€™t rigorous enough, but she wasnā€™t motivated to take the 2 or 3 more to get her to the next tier as they would have eaten into her GPA and ECā€™s, time-wise. Eh, she got into UCLA, UCB, UCSB, Cal Poly and some privates. While at Cal, she did have to reach out to GSIā€™s and go to office hours at times and do some extra on-campus tutoring (especially for those very large frosh-soph classes), which was something she was not used to having to do. A lot of it is learning how to learn and how to navigate and advocate for what you want. Those are valuable skills that take you well beyond your college years.

24

That can vary depending on major. A very popular major may have significantly larger upper division courses than a less popular major.

25

@ccprofandmomof2 The UC schools do have a reputation for being large and bureaucratic and they are. But every UC grad I know, is doing well and they all had a wonderful time at their respective schools. It does depend on the kid. If your kid needs extra hand holding, they might do better at a smaller school.

26

@natty1988 Thankfully my kids are super capable. I was asking more for my students, particularly the first-gen ones, who often are really stymied by bureaucracies and sometimes fall through the cracks without support. I guess I dislike the phrase ā€œhand holdingā€ because it implies thereā€™s something wrong with the kid, that they arenā€™t tough enough or savvy enough, etc. In my personal experience (and I speak from my own experience only), the privileged kids know how to advocate for themselves. Itā€™s the first gen kids who might have great street smarts but donā€™t always know how to translate that into dealing with bureaucracy. I realize I see the world differently from my perspective than most CC-ers, though! :smiley:

27

@ccprofandmomof2 There were plenty of first gen students when I attended UCD 30 years ago, and likely even higher percentage now across the entire UC system. The schools look favorably upon first gen in college (parents have no college) during application review, so the students should definitely write about those factors in their admission essays.

28

@aggies1989 Yes, I have plenty of students who are admitted to UCB and UCLA, but many decide not to go because of what they hear about how impersonal it is and how difficult it is to manage the bureaucracy on their own. I think thatā€™s a shame. I was hoping to hear some anecdotes from you in your AMA that might call that perception into question, but I guess that was wishful thinking.

29

For UC overall in 2019, 38.2% of frosh enrollees were first-generation-to-college, as were 49.8% of transfer enrollees. This is from numbers from the following; you can also check per campus.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/freshman-admissions-summary
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/transfer-admissions-summary

The UC definition of first-generation-to-college is that neither parent has a four year college degree.

30

@ccprofandmomof2 It's a shame some of your students decided not to attend thinking they would face bureaucratic difficulties due to being first gen. I was a first gen student, my parents have zero college so they couldn't provide any advice at all during my schooling. All my friends in college, first gen and otherwise, went through the same experiences and navigated difficulties together. The university (via the department advisor and college advisor) did a good job of making sure we were on track to graduate. I found an internship and eventual post graduation job through the school's career center. I had only positive experiences going to professor office hours. Both my kids currently in college echo similar experiences with advisers and getting help. I had a few friends that were first gen that had faced difficulties in school, but that was more due to lack of money (you could argue being first gen and having less money go hand in hand). If its any comfort, I honestly can't attribute mine or my peer students success as being first gen or not, I see it as mainly their own efforts. Lastly, it's really common to be a first gen student, especially in a public university.
31

@aggies1989 Yes, I agree. I spend so much time talking to kids about their decisions and trying to understand why they are so afraid of taking the leap. They often refer back to all the negative information they have heard about bureaucracy and a fear of getting lost at the UCs. I donā€™t quite understand why they apply, even, if they donā€™t want to go. I think they just want to know if they could get in, and then when it becomes real, itā€™s too scary. I know they will be fine at our local CalStateā€“there is nothing wrong with that path at allā€“but I feel sometimes that if they pushed themselves a little more they could do really well, particularly those who have dreams of post-grad degrees.

It is heartening to hear you talk about how you and your peers pulled together. I am certain that still happens. I do realize that the UCs have done a great job. I am not trying to disparage them at all. And I know that many, many first gen students are plucky and courageous and have no problem taking the leap. I am not trying to overgeneralize about first gen students, who are as diverse as any other group. But the UBC and UCLA in particular have a negative reputation among some of my students, and I wish I could give my students a few more concrete examples to dispel that reputation, particularly for my most academically talented students who I know would rise to the challenge.

32

Iā€™m a UC Davis Alum ('92) and until a year ago I had not been back to campus. When I ā€œtouredā€ Davis with my D over winter break, I was a little disappointed and felt the college was a little rundown and very ā€œsterileā€. The town of Davis is still small and quaint but it seemed lacking in many respects.

Maybe having recently toured beautiful college campuses like University of Washington-Seattle; Tulane; USC, and Duke; put UC Davis in a different light for us?

Regarding large class sizes, most of my upper-division classes were 30 students or less but I still remember some large lecture classes of several hundred students. I enjoyed my time at Davis but I feel I have very little connection to the college, unlike my friends who went to colleges like UC Berkeley and UCLA and who continue to support their college thirty years later.

33

Actually based on my own experience, UC Berkeley was actually less bureaucratically run than some schools (i.e., Columbia, etc) in administrative works back in late 90s to early 2000s. All my Cal friends who also had attended Columbia for graduate degrees shared the same sentiments. I donā€™t know, probably itā€™s how typical New Yorkers behave? Beats me. But one year stint in the Big Apple, somehow to a certain extent, had developed me being street smart. Iā€™m still grateful for that. :smile:

34

I am interested in any tips or advice you have for one starting their education later in life. I have decided to study for a criminology degree and possibly double major in polisciā€¦my ultimate goal is law schoolā€¦

35

Iā€™m afraid I canā€™t be of much help, I followed a traditional path for my comp. sci. and math BS and started working immediately while simultaneously completing a MS degree. The term for older students is ā€œnon-traditionalā€ so if you google that for the schools offering your degree, you may be able to find more information. For example, the UC system has this page.

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/campuses-majors/campus-programs-and-support-services/non-traditional-students.html
Perhaps some of the other folks on this thread can chime in.

36

Hereā€™s the classroom inventory at UCLA:

https://www.registrar.ucla.edu/Faculty-Staff/Classrooms-and-Scheduling/General-Assignment-Classroom-Inventory

And hereā€™s another list of the classrooms with seating charts and pictures:

https://www.teaching.ucla.edu/avs/classroom-list

The largest class at UCLA is still Moore 100, and itā€™s listed as having 420 seats. When I attended, it was closer to 500, so they must have done something to it by remodeling. Seating probably wouldnā€™t matter now that most of the classes are Zoomed, so it appears that classes are less capped. Iā€™d expect a run on enrollment for at least fall term, in classes that would be perhaps harder (at least perceptively) when in-person.

The lower division chem classes would be extremely popular with all the premeds, etc., at UCLA ā€“ per ucbalumnusā€™s point about popular majors and classes having larger enrollments, so it isnā€™t a question of Ivies and medium-size elite colleges not having large LD classes either. There are various social-media types who video their finding seats in class at whatever Ivy, and some of them look to be at least a good 250-300 students.

Thereā€™s an article about Stanfordā€™s average CS class being ~ 120 students with a larger student-faculty ratio, because Iā€™d imagine that CS professors would be the hardest to find, so again thereā€™s the popular-major theory that is manifested with respect to its enrollment. Iā€™m guessing that CS classes all across the country are large, no matter whether public flagship or small private. (At least relatively speaking ā€“ e.g., for a Caltech student, the perception of a large class might be ~75, not 400.)

And any notion that UCDā€™s classes are smaller than UCBā€™s and UCLAā€™s would be erroneous.

Edit: And let me add that students and their parents across the nation already know that UCLA and UCB have large enrollments. That doesnā€™t stop a school like ASU and other public universities with larger enrollments from being less desirable, but undoubtedly for various reasons.

37

If LS is your ultimate goal, try to steer clear of vocational majors such as Crim, which are frowned upon by top Law adcoms. Any traditional liberal arts major where you get lotsa reading and writing will prepare you well for LS.

The good news is that UCs love non-trad students, as do law schools. Good luck.

38

Note that ā€œcriminologyā€ as a college major may be different from ā€œcriminal justiceā€ as a college major.
https://onlinedegrees.kent.edu/sociology/criminal-justice/community/criminal-justice-vs-criminology

39

I was specifically responding to the StephWindā€™s post where they mentioned 'ā€˜criminologyā€™, but your clarification is correct.

40

I just realized I never replied to you. So sorry! Thank you so much for all the information!