UC Berkeley (in-state) vs Emory for Computer Science

College Search & Selection
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<p>It may not superscore for admissions purposes, but it apparently does for reporting purposes. For proof, look at # 51 which shows that it does. </p>

<p>Superscoring is one of the dirty secrets. Certain posters frequently argue that their school’s SAT scores are understated due to this effect. A closer examination involving a comparison with the non-superscored ACT data reveals that, in most cases, the reported IS superscored. </p>

<p>As for your characterization of me as </p>

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<p>you sound like the U Michigan people. What’s next? Accusations that I graduated from arch-rival Stanford?? LOL.</p>

<p>I’m not anti-UC Berkeley (nor anti-U Michigan for that matter), but I am definitely anti-pompom wavers who seek to aggrandize their school’s undergraduate place. </p>

<p>The fact is that schools such as UC Berkeley and U Michigan are known for their graduate school excellence. Free-riding on that graduate school/research-fueled reputation, as you constantly do, is misleading for most aspiring undergraduates and out of step with the reality of America.</p>

<p>Just accept it, RML. For undergraduate education, Emory is superior to Berkeley.</p>

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Well, if that’s true, then how come Emory grads don’t fare well to Berkeley grads in terms of earnings? In fact, the gap between them is noticeable. Additionally, take a look at the bulge bracket firms’ data and see it for yourself that Emory is hardly a choice for recruitment whilst they do all recruit at Berkeley regularly. Again, don’t take my word for it. Check the data and see it for yourself.</p>

<p>As for the quality of students, I would rely on these data:</p>

<p>Average GPA of Freshmen students
3.93 - Berkeley
3.84 - Emory</p>

<p>Acceptance Rate
22.3% - Berkeley
28% - Emory</p>

<p>Percentage of students in the top 10 of their HS class
99% - Berkeley
87% - Emory</p>

<p>SAT Scores Math
650-770 Berkeley
660-750 Emory</p>

<p>SAT Scores Writing
640-750 Berkeley
650–740 Emory</p>

<p>And, if we pluck out the data for CS students at both schools, then the difference would even be noticeable. So clearly, this is hands down in favor to Berkeley – better students, better faculty, better facilities, much better reputation and way much higher salary potential after graduation.</p>

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<p>RML,
Do you know what a Cost-of-Living adjustment is? It means that things cost different amounts depending on where one lives. And INCREDIBLY, what also happens is that pay scales will differ depending on where one lives. I know that this is hard for you to fathom, but that’s how things work in the USA. The COL in San Francisco Bay Area, where the largest concentration of Berkeley grads live, is different (read: higher) than almost anywhere else in the USA. </p>

<p>Apply a Cost-of-Living adjustment and then make whatever comparisons you like of Emory and UC Berkeley. But a warning….you may not like the results.</p>

<p>As for your data, I’ve already addressed it. Sorry to be the one to have to tell you, but repeating yourself does not improve it. For most areas of undergraduate education, Emory beats UC Berkeley.</p>

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<p>^ Then explain it to me why both NYU and Columbia didn’t fare well against Dartmouth and Princeton in the survey. Prove it to me that Emory grads are not attracted to work in the Bay Area. And if they are, why aren’t they in the Bay Area when the HYPSMs and the 2nd tiers of the academic world in America are well repesented in the Bay Area?</p>

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<p>RML, your arguments have gotten sad. You keep posting the same surverys and same figures. If we are supposed to take your figures seriously, why do you conveniently not comment on the figures Hawkette posted? Partly due to Berkeley’s size, Emory’s incoming freshman class will simply be stronger. As for the Class rank question, Berkeley actively does not WANT to accept students outside of the top 10% while Emory does not care as much about class rank. On the CDS, Emory merely says that class rank is “considered” as opposed to “important” or “very important”. Secondly, as Hawkette said, while GPA is important, it is far from standardized and so it alone cannot be used as a tool to determine the strength of a student body. In SAT numbers, Emory beats Berkeley. In ACT numbers, Emory beats Berkeley. </p>

<p>Ofcourse those schools will take the PayScale ranking seriously. They did well in those rankings. It’s called propaganda. You should know better than to use that argument. Like before, I ask you again. Why do schools like Colgate and Bucknell (good schools but definitely not extremely prestigious) do so well in the PayScale ranking? You say that ranking high on that list means greater job prospects, more prestige, higher worth of diploma etc. So are you willing to admit that a Colgate degree is more prestigious and more favoured by recruiters over Duke, UPenn and Yale degrees? Oh btw, Colgate, Bucknell and the Colorado School of Mines beat your beloved Berkeley. Are you willing to admit that degrees from those schools are more prestigious than a degree from Berkeley? If you are, go ahead… I’m waiting. If not, then please stop lying to yourself. </p>

<p>Lastly a lot of the data your provided is used by USnews…why is it that, last time I checked, I had to look past Emory’s 17th position to find Berkeley. If Berkeley is so amazing and is “significantly” better, then why does the likes of Emory, Rice and Vandy beat it? Admit it. For undergraduate studies, Emory > Berkeley.</p>

<p>To Barrons, umm your pro LARGE PUBLIC university bias is showing. Aren’t you a pro-UW Madison poster? Let me guess, you probably think that UW-Madison is much better than Emory as well. Now that I think about it, I think I saw you commenting on a “Emory vs. UW-Madison” thread.</p>

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<p>Wow, I didn’t think it was possible but you use even WORSE data than RML to back up your absurd claims. Urban Dictionary? Really? Sorry but with Berkeley, at least a case can be made using flawed data that Berkeley is better for UG. I don’t even think flawed data and surveys will prove that UW-Madison is better than Emory for undergraduate studies. Sorry, better luck next time.</p>

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Uh huh…and there’s a reason why it’s more expensive than Atlanta. :)</p>

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I don’t like it when people talk in absolutes about something as subjective as what constitutes a better undergraduate education. Yes, hawkette, we know what your four main factors for undergrad education are and there’s no need to repeat them here. However, there are many other factors that go into a college that aren’t captured. </p>

<p>Berkeley has really awesome academic programs across the board, and yes, despite what others try to say, they really do translate down to the undergrads. Top profs do teach undergrads…for example, Robert Reich taught an undergrad public policy course last semester. IMHO, the environment at Berkeley is far larger and more dynamic than Emory. Does this mean Berkeley is better for everyone? No, of course not. Emory I think has some advantages for students…if the OP was premed, I would probably recommend Emory…especially full ride.</p>

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Probably the same reason you and hawkette don’t comment on my rebuttal to your endowment figures…or change in USNWR ranking methodology…</p>

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<p>^I stopped reading your figures, when you speculated Berkeley’s endowment IF it were private. Seriously, UCB you can’t point out the advantages of attending a large public school like Berkeley and then also attribute the advantages of very large endowments (usually reserved for elite private colleges) to Berkeley again. Take your pick. Berkeley is public. Let’s try to deal with reality, shall we?</p>

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<p>I think Berkeley is the better choice here for the OP hands down. The reputation of its CS department in the eyes of employers and graduate school adcoms is stellar and I think this is one of the few instances where choosing a university based on departmental strength is justified.</p>

<p>Hawkette, I don’t think Emory fares as well as Rice in postgraduate placement professionally or in academia based on what I have seen. I think you need to break down your REVD acronym into several tiers.</p>

<p><a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights;
Duke: #6
Rice: #20
Emory: #36
Vanderbilt: not listed</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.ksu.ksu.edu/media/achievements/scholarstop10of5.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ksu.ksu.edu/media/achievements/scholarstop10of5.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
Duke: #5
REV: not listed</p>

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<p>alam1,</p>

<p>You’re the one comparing endowments of a private to a public. Berkeley, being public, gets $500 million a year from the State of California…Emory receives no such funding. That’s reality. I’m correcting your comparison so it’s “apples to apples”.</p>

71

<p>Here’s my final piece for this thread.</p>

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Bull’s-eye! And I wonder why hawkette couldn’t understand that… We’re talking about computer science where Berkeley is quite strong and is known to be a powerhouse for such program. This isn’t a pre-med thread! </p>

<p>alam1, a die-hard Emory student, please yourself, kiddo. You are entitled to that. If that’s what makes you happy, go ahead and believe that Emory, your alma mater school, is superior to Berkeley all you want. You may even want to believe that Emory is superior to Harvard. Enjoy the hallucination and comfort yourself by believing that Emory is the best school for comsci. </p>

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What’s wrong with State Us especially Berkeley, UMich and UVa? Aside from their endowment, they also receive funding from the government. Emory does not. The simple fact is, Berkeley has far bigger budget allocation for instructional purposes than Emory has. </p>

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I’d take Berkeley in a heartbeat, of course. That’s a no-brainer. </p>

<p>**OP: This is your choice but choose wisely.</p>

<p>One school is cheaper, but far from where the action is (Bay Area/SV), has lower reputation, has less respected faculty line-up especially for IT/comsci programs, has slightly weaker students, in general, and maybe substantially weaker students for IT/comsci, and has obviously lower respect amongst the top employers in the IT industry that’s why their graduates don’t get paid as much. </p>

<p>On the other school, the other school is near SV, has a huge and POWERFUL alumni network in SV and in the IT world, in general, giving you great advantages in the employment race, has far better branding amongst the academic people as well as the employers, and whose graduates make substantially more. </p>

<p>This isn’t a close comparison to me. And I bet the top students like you across America, and the world, know which one is the obvious choice here. </p>

<p>Good luck! :)**</p>

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Does Emory include students at their Oxford campus in the Emory stats?</p>

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<p>ouch!!! :D</p>

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<p>RML are you serious? I already said Berkeley is better than Emory in CS. This thread went off topic and we were comparing the two in terms of the complete undergraduate experience (not just CS).</p>

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<p>It’s good to see that you completely ignored my thread and instead offered some condescending words. As always, stay classy.</p>

75

<p>ucb,
Re your calling me out,</p>

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<p>I agree. My declarative statement was really meant as an immature response to RML’s equally immature declarations, eg in # 58 (“Just accept it, hawkette. Berkeley is superior to Emory”). Just giving him back a little of his own silliness. </p>

<p>There is always a lot of gray in this stuff and I especially believe that because I think a lot about and value the non-academic factors of the college experience. </p>

<p>For my main interests (a highly balanced undergraduate life where the student is the focus and he/she can get the best of academics, social life and athletic life) this often leads me to favor the lesser ranked colleges over those that might be more highly ranked or more prestigious to others. To me, personal happiness trumps that stuff pretty easily. </p>

<p>The irony in this “debate” is that I would personally pick UCB over a school like Emory as it has more of what I value. To me, the learning part is a push (and would be for a large number of colleges), but the environments and the non-academic aspects are very, very different on each campus. </p>

<p>Re your comment on the Oxford campus students, I agree with you again. If they are going to be getting an Emory degree, they should be counted. But I hope you know that their numbers are far smaller than the 50% of the enrollment numbers one finds at UCB. </p>

<p>ldb,
You know that I like Duke, but that WSJ thing is both old and very slanted. It’s a loser. Most importantly, it’s from students who graduated over a decade ago and thus does not give an accurate account of the student quality that exists today at these schools. Secondarily, it make no allowance for geography as 11 of the 15 grad programs selected are in the Northeast. None are in the Southeast/Southwest. </p>

<p>RML,
Go back to my first post (# 14). I actually recommended UC Berkeley and posted that for CS, UCB would be a stronger place. LOL. </p>

<p>Re your cheering that UC Berkeley has plenty of dough and spends its money to support undergrads, then why don’t they give full financial aid (like Emory) and why are they jacking up the numbers of OOS students? California is in a financial pit and it’s likely to get worse before it gets better. This stuff runs downhill and UC Berkeley and the other UCs are going to feel this for years to come. Voting for Meg & Carly this November would be a good first step to reversing this. </p>

<p>Finally, RML, a die-hard spouse of a UCB grad, please yourself, kiddo. You are entitled to that. If that’s what makes you happy, go ahead and believe that Berkeley, your wife’s alma mater school, is superior for undergrad to Emory all you want. You may even want to believe that Berkeley is superior to Harvard. Enjoy the hallucination and comfort yourself by believing that Berkeley is the best school.</p>

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<p>Ok, this is boring. But I will advise the OP from experience and I am not being biased but giving you the best advise. </p>

<p>Berkeley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emory </p>

<p>when you apply to graduate school. This is no joke. I am being serious.We are talking of Berkeley here lol for computer science. When you apply for graduate school you are going to regret not going to the “stronger” computer science school. The people who are reading ur grad apps would likely have studied at Berkley and work with professors at Berkeley.</p>

<p>Please take my advise</p>

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<p>Jeez I think Hawkette was too harsh. Anyhow for science its a no brainer. Go to Berkeley. I would turn down berkeley for science and engineering anyday for half of the ivy league if you want to go into academia.</p>

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<p>hawkette, I think you’re a VERY informative poster and I have respect for you. I think CC wouldn’t be as dynamic as it is now without you. However, I feel very strongly that you have very little knowledge about Berkeley and Michigan, and / or you’re quite biased against those schools, so I think that you should try to learn more about those schools before you even critique them superficially. Berkeley and Michigan are not private schools, as you very well know of, and are quite unique to those people who value private school set-up, but they are no less substandard than most private schools in America including those schools you lavishly promote on this message board, such as, Emory, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame or Rice.</p>

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<p>sefago,
Re your comment,</p>

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<p>if you’re referring to the last paragraph of # 75, please note that it is a reprint (with the college names reversed) of RML’s statement in # 71. I agree it is waaaay harsh. Turing the argument around was my way of pointing this out. </p>

<p>RML,
I thank you for your compliments…and your suggestions. </p>

<p>Cheerleading is commonplace on CC—I do the same for my favorite group of colleges—but declarations without substantiation and/or appreciation of other places bother me, particularly when they come from partisan non-American sources with a limited experience with/understanding of the whole of America. </p>

<p>In making college comparisons, I prefer objective data points that relate to the student’s undergraduate experience (quality of student peers, size of classroom, quality of instruction/access to profs, deep resources and willingness to spend on things valued by undergrad). I care about the student first and foremost. I don’t care much at all about institutional prestige and things like the corrupt PA scoring, particularly if it’s primarily due to graduate program research. </p>

<p>Our differences derive from how we judge and what we value, not to mention how these schools are understood in our native/adopted countries. In almost all cases, schools with strong graduate programs have the highest regard among internationals. </p>

<p>The major publics have strong infrastructure and many prominent ones (like UCB and U Michigan) have impressive research accomplishments in their history, but it is undeniable that they offer a far less personal experience for the average undergraduate. Remember—my view is student first, institution second. Furthermore, nearly all of the big trends affecting colleges today are negative for the publics. As one might guess, most of these issues involve money and all portend even less attention and care in the future for the average State U undergraduate student. </p>

<p>Wrt your specific suggestions on UC Berkeley and U Michigan, I have done plenty of research. LOL. Of course they’re good places, but for undergraduate education, there are many that IMO are better, especially for OOS students. </p>

<p>It’s instructive that you reference Emory, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, and Rice. Perhaps it is you, a European married to an Asian and now living in Asia, that should be doing more research on these schools as, for most subjects/students, all would IMO be superior choices. All of these excellent colleges are enjoying a surge of interest from highest quality students and a higher profile among employers. It’s not too late to get on board….</p>

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<p>WOW</p>

<p>There has been a ton of discussion in this thread, and that’s amazing. I’m sure people who read this will benefit from the debate.</p>

<p>At this point I am almost certain that UC Berkeley is the better choice.</p>

<p>I would say that for almost any major except CS/engineering/chem… Emory and Berkeley would be about equal even in their differences. However, it is clear that because I am very certain about CS, that Berkeley is without a doubt the better option.</p>

<p>Emory’s endowment as a private school can care for its undergraduates more than Berkeley can – however Berkeley makes up for this when speaking of the CS major, not directly, but because of the benefits associated with attending a University’s “flagship department” (Economics at UChicago, Wharton, etc). I feel that my passion of CS will be better stimulated among the Berkeley CS crowd.</p>

<p>Emory might be more caring, but Berkeley is definitely more exciting. (to me…)</p>

<p>For these reasons, and the points made by the people who contributed to this thread, I feel extremely comfortable about Berkeley, while remaining understanding, respectful, and impressed of Emory.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for the help. Also, don’t see this as a “closing post” for the thread – the discussion could continue to benefit many.</p>

<p>On that note, what other options would be even better than Berkeley for my situation? Disregard statistics… I’m only thinking about the theoretical reach schools, possibly also as transfer options, not for academics but for quality of life (but don’t worry – I would never enter school with the transfer mindset).</p>

<p>I would think MIT, UPenn, or Harvard (remember – NYC is really important for me… I have always really liked the City. Berkeley’s distance could be annoying in this regard). I don’t especially desire Stanford, Princeton, Yale, or several of the other top 25 schools. And since Berkeley is already ~#1 for CS, I’d be mostly concerned about quality of life, and the undergraduate experience, and fit, in addition to the academic standard set by Cal (the coziness of Emory, with the focus and energy of Berkeley.). Actually, the only schools I think I would consider over Berkeley are MIT, Harvard, UPenn. They have better financial aid, better location for NYC (but definitely not CS!!), they are “cozier?”, and they are more “undergraduate-focused” (many of the same factors that initally drew me to Emory). They are definitely good enough in CS, and they would definitely fit me.</p>

<p>But are they worth it? I’m very happy with Berkeley, except for the reduced undergraduate coziness, the loans, the distance from NYC and the 2nd-tier finance mentality.</p>