UC Berkeley may be forced to admit 5100 fewer students

[1NJParent]

@ucbalumnus

However, most such people are PhD students, whose admission and enrollment would not be affected by the politics of undergraduate admission and enrollment

My understanding is that this lawsuit, and its consequence, is affecting the number of graduate students to be enrolled as well.

[Rivet2000]

@ucbalumnus

@Rivet2000

If Cal want to continue to be known for it’s research labs they need students from outside the US.

Something interesting to do:

1. Go to any of the Cal research websites
2. Click on the “People” tab
3. Say to yourself “Hmmmmm”

However, most such people are PhD students, whose admission and enrollment would not be affected by the politics of undergraduate admission and enrollment, where the in-state versus out-of-state ratio is a hot political topic, and NIMBYs tend to see undergraduates as more rowdy and annoying compared to graduate students.

Not necessarily, try the Berkeley AI Research lab. You can filter by undergrad, Master’s, PhD, and Post-Doc. The make-up of labs like these would indeed be impacted. And I’m not at all sure that such an environment would be seen as an advantage to potential grad students.

[timetimeagain]

@sushiritto

So, I’m just looking at it from the POV of a CA taxpayer.

Could you elaborate how your tax money was used? For K12 education or college?

[sushiritto]

@timetimeagain

Could you elaborate how your tax money was used? For K12 education or college?

We’re tilling the same ground again. Property and income taxes are paid to the State of CA and in turn the money is spent by the State of CA. Also, as a CA resident, and a CA voter, I VOTE!

ETA: The process of reducing OOS admissions is underway. So what’s being debated is history or nearly history.

[ucscuuw]

@sushiritto

We’re tilling the same ground again

Try visiting the Michigan thread. Lots of new ground covered everyday

[Carina_M]

Not sure what state your kid is from, but if you had top universities in your state (with a population larger than most countries), I would suspect you would also feel strongly that admissions should be favored for those with residency. My kid has applied to UDub (was accepted) and is waiting on Michigan. Large state schools which favor in-state applicants. We aren’t pissed about that. Like at all. We get it.

The sheer number of kids from CA with the qualifications to attend a top UC is huge. At my kid’s high school there are probably at least 50. Multiply that by the thousands of high schools in the state. We have enough kids here to fill the UCs with more-than-qualified kids.

I don’t get the vitriol from OOS parents. If the situation was reversed I guarantee you would feel the same as we do.

[timetimeagain]

So the tax money does go a long way…

It’s true that you VOTE. Bye bye UCB.

[teb]

I have no skin in this game since my kid didn’t apply to UCB. I feel so horrible for everyone. But, you all should be angry with UCB for mishandling this for decades.

Here is where CA taxes go to pay for state college and universities. A huge portion of CA taxes go to fund health and education. Including higher ed.

The open secret about California taxes

" The state is projected to spend $78.3 billion* in 2018, from its own revenue sources, on six million students in K-12 public schools. That amounts to $11,614 per pupil from state and local sources and reflects recent years of improved funding due to the improved economy and voter-approved tax increases.

Taxpayers also subsidize a higher-education network made up of community colleges and the California State University and University of California systems."

[bluebayou]

@ucscuuw

If anything, I’ve seen many argue that OOS students are held to a higher bar…

Anyone can argue anything, but that does not make it true. (And there are no published facts to support the pov of higher or lower bar.)

What I don’t understand is the angst of the OOS parents. As I stated earlier, UC is not a good value at OOS rates. (IMO)

[TrXY-81]

It is not going to zero but drastically curtailed vs previous years (and based on historical precedent, a case of “false advertising” could be made if UCB knew/planned about reducing OOS% prior to admissions being due… I do not think so but are you saying that this was already decided on to be implemented prior to the SBN suit?.. if so, the Regents and UCB ought to address it directly and explain why they did not tell OOS applicants beforehand)

Shouldn’t the other perspective that a meaningful part of the long-term brand value of a college is in its alumni-network and its reach/support for recent graduates (and not only its research prowess) be considered? Case in point: University of Michigan – with its incredible OOS alumni network - which has an enormous value in placement of graduates for internships, jobs, guidance for career placement, etc. UCB has a great brand name, too but becoming more CA-centric will be counterproductive in the long-term, I think. The Regents seem to think it is a bump on the road and this too shall pass – at the cost of some OOS 26s, perhaps but so be it. Oh well – it is exhausting.

[scrambro]

this thread has basically morphed into the OOS family venting thread. I think that’s fine. I don’t think anyone feels as though their words will change anything, as 2022 Fall admissions is a done deal (save for some kind of crazy appeal victory for UCB in the next couple of months)
But Cal is a special place and tons of OOS kids probably had their hearts set on it, and now there is no chance. That would leave me devastated and angry.
I say, go ahead and let it all out. There’s another thread that acts as more of an official 2026 freshmen thread anyway.

[Gumbymom]

It is not just UCB but other UC campuses which will be limiting OOS enrollment. The UC’s had already set up a cap in 2017.

Several articles dated from the original 2017 cap to now.

UC Board of Regents approves policy on nonresident student enrollment

University of California to Admit Fewer Out-of-State Students

A bold plan for UC: Cut share of out-of-state students by half amid huge...

Proposal reportedly made to reduce out-of-state students at UC schools

[TrXY-81]

Thank you. This is helpful. I had heard about the 18% and assumed that this would apply this year, but here we are. Again, it is water under the bridge at this time, I guess.

[Carina_M]

Yes that’s all true. There are kids on the other side of this ruling. Not easy at all.

[lll1]

@Carina_M

There are kids on the other side of this ruling.

Yes, this is good to remember.

[Ally86]

@bluebayou

What I don’t understand is the angst of the OOS parents. As I stated earlier, UC is not a good value at OOS rates. (IMO)

I agree. They’re a great deal for in-state students, but I don’t think a CSU or UC is a good value for OOS. Why pay essentially private school rates for huge classes, little housing, and large faceless bureaucracy?

[sushiritto]

@TrXY-81

It is not going to zero but drastically curtailed vs previous years (and based on historical precedent, a case of “false advertising” could be made if UCB knew/planned about reducing OOS% prior to admissions being due… I do not think so but are you saying that this was already decided on to be implemented prior to the SBN suit?.. if so, the Regents and UCB ought to address it directly and explain why they did not tell OOS applicants beforehand)

The process of reducing OOS enrollment began in 2017, when the UC Regents approved a plan OOS enrollment reduction:

UC Board of Regents approves policy on nonresident student enrollment

One of many articles, this one dated July 8, 2021, via Google, discussing the drop in OOS enrollment at Cal. UCs to Replace OOS Admits with CA Admits | Ask Ms. Sun

Then in August 2021, “Community Groups Sue UC Berkeley for Excessive Growth”:

Community Groups Sue UC Berkeley for Excessive Growth. Category: Extra from...

@TrXY-81

Case in point: University of Michigan – with its incredible OOS alumni network - which has an enormous value in placement of graduates for internships, jobs, guidance for career placement, etc.

I agree Michigan is GREAT school. Ranked #23 in the USNWR and the ranking has dropped numerically from #29 over the past several years. I’d speculate, that Michigan may pass Cal by soon.

Having said that, Michigan had 80,000 apps in 2021-2022. About 11,000 of them were from in-state applicants and the other 69,000 applicants or thereabouts came from OOS. Michigan doesn’t have anywhere near the in-state demand that Cal has from Californians.

ETA: Gumbymom beat me to the punch.

[TrXY-81]

Thanks. The long-term adjustment is understood. However, the “sudden” drop to 10% for OOS/Int vs 18% assumed (pre SBN rulings) is the issue for OOS 26 applicants. That’s basically half of what could have been assumed. A major difference, I’d say. Again, it is what it is at this time. Very very disappointing and frustrating. Again, it is a black eye for UCB.

Agree with your comment re Michigan. Their brand value is only improving.

[ucscuuw]

@TrXY-81

However, the “sudden” drop to 10% for OOS/Int vs 18% assumed (pre SBN rulings) is the issue for OOS 26 applicants

I am not sure it’s 10%. In the interview he only mentions 90% of incoming admits. Not necessarily freshman admits. It may be possible to be at 90% in state for the overall pool and be at 18% for OOS. In 2021, OOS was only 13% and 11% within COE. It’s not a big drop either way.

[sfcal]

UW does have OOS caps in place for its impacted majors. For example, it reserves 97% of spots at the Allen School of Computer Science and Computer Engineering for in-state students. Only 3% for OOS. From their website: “We make a small number of DA offers to out-of-state students, but the vast majority of DA offers go to Washington residents.”