UC Berkeley may be forced to admit 5100 fewer students

[siennared]

jaw dropping just like the slope for CA residents

[CMA22]

I would like to see the yield and enrollment rate graphs. It is not surprising UC campuses would admit a greater percentage of OOS applicants, considering they would be expected to have a lower yield of those applicants who actually enroll.

[ucscuuw]

It’s still wrong. If a college sees poor yield in one cohort and better yields in another, the sane response is to admit more from the high yield cohort. Now, the UCs do the opposite because they are targeting a specific amount of OOS tuition and so react by increasing the admit rate for the low yield OOS group. When in-state applicants are so desperate to get into UCs its a slap in the face particularly when you consider the huge endowment fund the UCs have at their disposal.

[formydd]

Understand and that needs to change to accommodate more admissions to qualified in-state students. UCs should not be accepting out of state students as long as an in-state student exists with similar or higher stats/ECs.

Is there a breakup on how much of student fees is from in-state and how much from OOS? A quick google search didn’t provide this info.

[CateCAParent]

But wouldn’t out of state yield stay relatively constant over time? If so, that doesn’t explain the jump in admissions. Maybe 2021 was an anomaly though.

Also, with Irvine specifically, out of state interest is relatively new. To compare apples to apples, what does the chart look like for UCB?

[57special]

That’s a blade that cuts both ways. CA schools are already very expensive for OOS’ers, but if they limit, or even stop them from being admitted, then there will be retaliation by other states.

[formydd]

Are you saying it is acceptable to accept OOS students when in-state applicants with equal or higher stats/ECs are rejected?

[roycroftmom]

That decision has already been made by your state legislature. If you want it changed, vote accordingly

[ucscuuw]

IN general, every school looks like UCIs. Here’s UCLA for instance. It’s pretty clear that post-2007 recession the UCs just admitted more OOS students to make up shortfall. Now they’ve become drunk on those dollars and continue in perpetuity even when the state budgets have a surplus and funding has gone up, not to mention the 30% growth in endowment value.

Here’s Berkeley where you can see sustained pressure from CA parents has mitigated the trend somewhat in recent years after showing similar gaps circa 2009.

[ucbalumnus]

@formydd

Is there a breakup on how much of student fees is from in-state and how much from OOS? A quick google search didn’t provide this info.

Looks like state subsidy went upward from 2017 or 2018 (when I saw that it was lower than student fees) to 2019-2020, according to figure 1 on page 4 of https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2019/4127/UC-CSU-cost-pressures-121719.pdf to the point that it went from below half to back above half of core funding.

However, that figure also shows that non-resident tuition was twice that of resident tuition (presumably the part paid by the student, as opposed to that paid by state financial aid which was a different slice of similar size than resident tuition).

[1NJParent]

@ucscuuw

There is a ton of evidence. UCB has just decided not to show some of that data as others have mentioned on here, and also there are major specific differences that are buried under aggregate trends. There is a reason the budget specifically targeted UCLA and UCB to limit OOS enrollment percentages. Some of the other UCs are even more egregious. Just look at how the UCI admit rates have skyrocketed for OOS and international applicants. UCSB, UCD, and UCSC all show similarly ridiculous discrepancies.

Higher admit rate for OOS/international applicants in itself doesn’t necessarily mean the schools are giving them preferential treatment. It could also mean that the quality of OOS/international applicants are increasing (relative to in-state applicants).

[sfcal]

Yes, that’s my point. In-state students are becoming hugely disadvantaged by an under-funded public university system that attracts lots of full pay OOS and international students. The state needs to adequately fund higher education so that CA students can attend their own state colleges.

[ucscuuw]

You think its an accident that these trends started right after the 2007 recession (or) did OOS students get smarter all of a sudden.

[formydd]

Probably you didn’t read my venting about Californians not making noise when they are being forced to go out of state. There are not enough of us to fight it and it is easy for the UC system to use the subjective selection process to justify to the courts that they are not admitting OOS students at the cost of in-state students.

Unfortunately there is no quick resolution for this unless politicians act - and they currently do not have a need to act on this. The politicians will listen to lobby groups of state employee unions, teacher unions etc and allocate funds to support these groups, but not the UC system as there is no such group for students.

[bluebayou]

Unlikely that other states will retaliate. Only a handful of states have public Universities that are highly selective (regarding admissions).

[roycroftmom]

I sympathize, but note that in other states such as Texas and NC, legislation to cap OOS attendance at state university did pass. If California’s voters don’t care enough to do something, the situation will not improve.

[ucbalumnus]

@sfcal

The state needs to adequately fund higher education so that CA students can attend their own state colleges.

To increase funding for UC (and presumably CSU), politicians and voters have to make choices that may be difficult. For example:

• Raise taxes (difficult to do politically).
• Cut K-12 funding (would require repealing proposition 98).
• Cut prison spending (would require putting fewer criminals in prison, which is often politically difficult given that people typically think that crime is higher than it actually is).
• Defaulting on existing debt (would make it very expensive to borrow in the future).
• Other spending cuts.
• Not saving money from tax revenue surpluses in good years to cushion tax revenue shortfalls in recessions.

[GirlDad71]

Just a month ago, Sacramento stepped up and funded the UC demands in exchange for higher numbers of IS seats at a Cal and UCLA, etc…Now this lawsuit threatens to cap any growth in seats at all for Cal, which will take everyone back to the drawing board…smaller numbers of total seats, with Sacramento insisting on more of them being IS students…It’s gonna all be about the $$, and our kids are caught in between a rock and a hard place.

[ucscuuw]

Other states already do this. OOS CS admit rate for UW is 3% compared to 25% in-state. TX and NC have explicit caps. The UCs have been far more welcoming to OOS and international students which is generally fine but not at the cost of screwing over in-state families a vast majority of them having contributed decades of taxes.

[bluebayou]

UC could also raise the OOS fee by say, another $10k. At a certain price point, OOS revenue will be maximized and demand will level off. (I’m sure the Economists at Cal or UCLA could model that easily.)