<p>Obviously very different environments- am looking for advice from present students or past students and parents. As a parent I am asking for both parents and students perspective in where my D might fit in with languages and prelaw who has lived in a rural mountain area, public high school. She likes interaction with teachers, not big on partying but loves a party but would like to be involved- very friendly accepting D. Positives and negatives please. We are visiting all of them, at UC Berkeley right now, and she has overnight programs coming up at Bowdoin and U Chicago but could not time the Berkeley one. Also, a few questions-why is the graduation rate low at Berkeley? What is the social life like at Bowdion and U Chichago? She has been accepted at all of them. Thanks</p>
<p>If one searches the individual forums of the respective schools, one will find the social life aspects, teacher access (currently discussed on the UChicago forum), etc. have been discussed in depth. Spending time on each campus is a good idea to help determine fit. Here is a recent parent report on UChicago: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/896268-food-thought-admitted-students-perspective-parent.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/896268-food-thought-admitted-students-perspective-parent.html</a></p>
<p>S2 turned down Berkeley for Tulane. He felt there was more access to professors, smaller classes, and a more interesting location. Others will have different opinions and goals, so it comes back to personal fit and aspirations.</p>
<p>Cal is very large, very impersonal. They use the “weeder class” approach to academics. Given Chicago vs. Bowdoin, I’d drop that option in half a second. </p>
<p>Chicago vs. Bowdoin is a really interesting asymmetrical comparison. Chicago is, along with Swarthmore and Harvey Mudd, among the most academically intense schools around.</p>
<p>Bowdoin…well, the weather is a negative and it’s a bit remote.
But with respect to LAC’s, as a UC grad married to a 30-year UC administrator, I’m in the position of the skeptic who came to church to scoff and stayed to pray. Our D had a lights out life-altering experience at an LAC and Bowdoin is a nice mixture of academically fairly challenging (if not at the Swat level) and balanced as far as social and other needs. </p>
<p>Some look down their noses at LAC’s as “coddling.” I’d dispute that framing and say, “optimizes the opportunity for an individual to reach their greatest potential.”</p>
<p>I vote Bowdoin in a heartbeat…
I think LACs are a much better environment than a University(this is just my opinion :))
Plus, I think the remote location is a plus. It forces students to make friends and attend campus events. At UChicago, one might be tempted to just go into town to find fun…</p>
<p>^As a Berkeley alum, I completely agree with the previous post. If you are accepted, congratulations; if you actually graduate from Berkeley, kudos. You have survived a really brutal “weeding out” process. Some departments are better than others, but all the people I’ve known who have dropped out of Berkeley since 1968 did so because it felt like a huge impersonal bureaucracy. I don’t believe it’s worth $50,000 in tuition for a student from out-of-state.</p>
<p>R6L, I agree with you about LAC’s, but I’d be tempted to interject, “While you’re at it…look at Smith.” Too late…LOL. But one of D’s friends went to U/Chicago and there’s enough to keep the students on campus, proximity to the city lights notwithstanding.</p>
<p>hahah…TheDad…I was thinking the same thing…:D</p>
<p>Bowdoin! :)</p>
<p>Bowdoin. Don’t waste your money for a UC at OOS rates.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t go to Berkeley as an undergrad. Impacted majors, no housing for sophomores, being shut out of courses, huge intro course… And the CA budget is in deep trouble. </p>
<p>So the question is Bowdoin vs. Chicago. Parents of current students, current students posting on CC and students from our high school are overwhelmingly happy with their Chicago experiences. I know less about Bowdoin, but I have the same impression. So in many ways I think it’s - will Bowdoin feel too small and remote after four years or do you want that intimate experience? Personally, I’d pick the city, but I’m a city girl - I like to spend my vacations in the country, but I have no desire to live there.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info everyone!- I have been reading all the info for the schools here, D is up against unusual choices. Any Bowdoin people out there? I will keep you posted of our visits.</p>
<p>We got back from the Berkeley visit. The campus was one of the most beautiful I have seen. D sat in on one class of 200 and kids were talking and texting but she liked the class. Elections were going on and Holi festival was quite different at least from my perspective, and the students did not appear as serious as I expected. D1 had some friends on campus and D2 met with them and visited a sorority which was different for a school visit. The sorority is an option we never thought of which could help with the size if she went there. Bowdoin next.</p>
<p>I graduated from Berkeley and I would LOVE for either of my children to go there, but alas, they want to major in stuff that Berkeley is not best at.</p>
<p>Cal is BIG, no doubt, but with that size comes opportunity not available at some smaller universities. (Please forgive my ignorance of either of the other schools mentioned, so no comparisons here.) I was advised to forgo Cal because most people felt it was not a fit for my personality, but what I found was a campus so large that any person can find others that they click with and groups they disagree with. The exposure to so many new things was fantastic and my horizons were opened to a whole new world. </p>
<p>I will say that depending on the major you go into, your experience at Cal can be very different. I did engineering and it is a rigid major with few electives. You declare on your application and are admitted to that major. I never had difficulty getting the classes I needed, but at times I did have to go to 8am classes (oh the horror of it all). My freshman Chem class had 2000 students. To accommodate us all, we had three different lecture times available. The labs (for Frosh Chem) are run by graduate students and although I know many feel that is not right, I always felt as if I was getting a great education by top notch students who knew their stuff. Occasionally the TA’s (teacher’s assistants) acted like students instead of teachers, but that was few and far between.</p>
<p>In the Humanities, the classes are a bit harder to get into and it may take a few tries to get into the popular classes with the professors everyone wants. </p>
<p>My Psych 1 class had a few hundred students taught by a TA. That was my only time being taught lecture by a TA, usually that is reserved for discussion sections and labs, not lectures. I can’t say if other Psych classes had the same experience.</p>
<p>As far as OOS tuition, it is relatively easy to change your state of residence while living there, and you should be able to pay in state tuition after that first year or so I was lead to believe.</p>
<p>I hope that helps. Oh one more thing, you just visited the school in terrific weather, but in the winter it rains and it gets cold. I lived off campus after a year and a half and I didn’t care for the longer walk to campus in pouring rain. But I’m not a fan of rain. I lived in Southern CA before that and went back after.</p>
<p>I live about an hour from Bowdoin and my D’s good friend attends Bowdoin. He loves it. Student body is quite diverse. He likes everything about Bowdoin. It is small and Brunswick is a quaint little town. Portland is about half an hour away. I think I remember my D saying most of their social life is on campus. The school always has things going on for the students. I think the visit may seal the deal. I know it did for my D’s friend.
Good Luck, and yes its can be a long winter in Maine…</p>
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<p>I can just about guarantee you, that scenario will never happen at the University of Chicago. One nice thing about Chicago is that you get classes as small as Bowdoin’s, but at the same time, you can find instruction in more than 30 foreign languages, just as at Berkeley. It is one of the best combinations available for the intimacy of a LAC and the breadth of a world-class research university. For foreign languages and pre-law, Chicago is really outstanding. Check out their “Law, Letters and Society” program if you have not already.</p>
<p>If cost is not an issue, and assuming you don’t need some area of instruction that Bowdoin can’t offer, for me a major factor would be the physical setting. Chicago and Bowdoin are worlds apart in that respect.</p>
<p>When deciding between Bowdoin and the U of C, weather should not be a factor. They both have real winters, with snow. (I’m not amongst those who think that winter is a detriment.) The major difference is that at Bowdoin it is much more feasible to actually take advantage of winter sports, such as downhill or cross-country skiing or ice skating. In Chicago one simply lives through the winter. In Maine it is possible to really enjoy it. (I live about 25 minutes away from Bowdoin and have been a student at the U of C, so I know whereof I speak.) </p>
<p>Bowdoin is also not as “remote” as some people would have you believe. It is located in a very nice little college town with restaurants–and a great indie movie theater with couches down front–not in the middle of the woods or in the frozen tundra. Brunswick is adjacent to Freeport, which has all of the shopping one’s heart could desire, and it is half an hour to Portland, which is a very cool city with a vibrant cultural life much bigger than its size would suggest. (Numerous art galleries, a First Friday Art Walk, an art school, a professional symphony, lots of music venues, an active bar scene, a good art museum, a major foodie scene, live repertory theater, and so forth.) The rail line will soon be extended from Portland to Brunswick, which should make access easier than it is now. It is 2 hours by bus or train from Portland to Boston.</p>
<p>It is probably true that most Bowdoin students spend most of their time and get most of their entertainment on campus. That is also true of the U of C, and of most other schools.</p>
<p>The big difference is that Bowdoin is not just a LAC, but a small LAC, and the U of C is a great university, albeit not one of those places that is so huge that the population outstrips that of many cities. There is nothing wrong with going to a LAC and saving the big U for grad school. On the other hand, the U of C is a fabulous place for the right person. (I’m a big fan of the U of C.)</p>
<p>I think the visits will really make the difference.</p>
<p>S1 went to CAL (graduated in 2009) and had an excellent experience. </p>
<p>On the social front, it is a bit challenging. There is tons going on, and I think the key is to take the initiative to seek out some of the activities that interest you. For living situation Greek or the co-ops are both social housing options.</p>
<p>On the academic front, he felt he had great access to professors. He took full advantage of office hours. It also depends on the major. One of his majors was classics which is highly rated and small. </p>
<p>If your daughter is exhilarated and motivated by the energy at Berkeley, it can be a great experience.</p>
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<p>Since Cal has more top-ranked programs than most/all Ivies, I gotta ask what the heck is it Not good at (besides Fine Arts)?</p>
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<p>Incorrect; they changed the residency rules back in the dark ages.</p>
<p><a href=“http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Default.aspx?PageID=legalinfo.html[/url]”>http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Default.aspx?PageID=legalinfo.html</a></p>
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<p>Aren’t practically ALL LACs “small”, by definition? (How many exceed 2500 students, or the size of our local HS?)</p>
<p>My D applied to Chicago, a couple other small universities, but predominantly LACs. I’d suggest the student in question look through the course catalogs. My D is also interested in languages and she compared Chicago’s offerings to those of the LACs where she was accepted. I think this is a very important thing to consider, as well as the feel for the campus.</p>
<p>H graduated from Bowdoin, grew up nearby and we visit often. It’s a great place, small enough to be welcoming, big enough to have a wide range of academics. UChicago would be great too-- I know people who LOVED it. It’s a really personal choice I think, between two wonderful options.</p>