<p>I'm trying to decide where to go and Im having a really hard time. I like both places but I feel that at dartmouth everyone is a just a son or daughter of some rich person and im not sure i would fit in</p>
<p>At most schools you'll find there are some very rich students and some low-income students. Don't let that be a factor for not choosing any school.</p>
<p>Are you in-state for Berkeley? What is the cost difference?</p>
<p>Do you like a smaller, more rural environment or do you prefer a larger city environment?</p>
<p>Do you prefer smaller classes and more personal attention or do you prefer the independence of being on your own with more freedom to make the experience your own?</p>
<p>What are your academic interests?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I like both places but I feel that at dartmouth everyone is a just a son or daughter of some rich person and im not sure i would fit in
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think this is a legitimate concern. Not that you won't fit in, but you'll be happier and more comfortable at a place like Berkeley which is, let us say, more egalitarian.</p>
<p>Im in state but the money is about the same for both places Dartmouth is being really nice and is giving all I need. I really don't care whether its a big or small city since i have lived in both and like both of them. I'm planning on going into math or maybe chemistry</p>
<p>Do you really think it shouldnt be a factor? I mean do you think I will find people that will accept me for who I am</p>
<p>About half the freshman class this year at Dartmouth is on financial aid. Did you come to Dimensions? I think it would be silly to base your decision off a stereotype - I have never gotten that impression here.</p>
<p>^^It does not matter. There will be some that are snobbish and some that are not snobbish. Pick the school you like.
Pros: UCB - nicer weather
Cons: Dartmouth - cold</p>
<p>
[quote]
About half the freshman class this year at Dartmouth is on financial aid.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Keep in mind that the annual income cutoff for financial aid at a private school costing almost $50,000 is about $200,000, depending on assets.</p>
<p>To the OP...
My son attended Dartmouth for 4 years as a Pell Grant recipient, which I take it you are.
There are plenty of rich kids at Dartmouth. However, in practice, this fact is not so apparent. About everything to do in Hanover is on campus and is free or available at nominal cost to students. Expensive clothes or having a car just are seldom, if ever, important. There is also a general attitude of friendliness and egalitarianism in the student body. Dartmouth is just not a snobby place.
The only time you might be aware that someone's family has money is when they visit Rio on winter break, or some such preposterous thing.
In sum, wealth differences were not a problem for my son and likely wouldn't be for you.</p>
<p>Ditto danas with respect to my daughter's experience. Some students had far far more than she, and some far less, but it never was wealth, nor the things that go along with it, an issue or even a discussion. Students are, maybe unusually, close - and their shared college experience is what binds them.</p>
<p>There are rich kids at all top schools and I'm sure UCB is no exception. My friends and I are not rich, and wealth has certainly not been an obstacle to "fitting in."</p>
<p>Columbia_Student gives a ridiculously oversimplified version of your decision. Dartmouth gets cold occasionally, just like the entire northeast and much of the US. Lately it's been in the high 70s - 80s and no clouds. Obviously it's not California, but I think putting only weather on a list of pros and cons is a bit closeminded.</p>
<p>It's not a simplified version but at least that is the main diference between those 2 schools. Weather is also an important factor, please don't discount it. For some people prestige overrides everything else, for others it's the weather. This is why we have discussion board. Everybody has a different opinion and the OP needs to hear it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are rich kids at all top schools and I'm sure UCB is no exception.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Percentagewise, there are FAR more rich kids at Dartmouth than UCB. What percent of Dartmouth students went to private high schools?</p>
<p>The problem the OP fears is decreasing over time. 20 years ago the situation would be much worse than today, 40 years ago it would have been horrific. There will be a shock for the OP, being around the rich presumably for the first time. But that doesn't mean OP won't acclimate nicely.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to hide the fact that the weather is different. I'm pointing out that the weather should not be the ONLY item on a list of "pros" and "cons," especially when comparing these schools specifically. That's probably oversimplification.</p>
<p>In my mind, the biggest difference between these schools is size, and what size entails. Dartmouth is fairly small, and with that comes a sense of community and school spirit that is more difficult for a large public to achieve.</p>
<p>To me, this is the most valuable thing - my professors know me my name and I feel they have a much more substantial interest in their students. Many are ready to give references for internships and are interested in the things I do outside of class. Maybe you can get this anywhere if you try hard enough, but I think Dartmouth is especially conducive to this kind of experience.</p>
<p>I like Dartmouth a lot, perhaps best among all of the Ivy colleges due to its undergraduate focus and the smart, fun, outgoing nature of its students. But in a comparison with UC Berkeley, there are significant differences and one should weigh them carefully as the undergraduate experience at each will be quite different. </p>
<p>Size and location are the most visibly obvious differences. UCB has about 33,000 students on its campus (23k undergrad) while Dartmouth has but 5500 (4k undergrad). Different sizes will appeal to different people, but it is highly likely that there is much more academic breadth…and much more academic bureaucracy...at UCB. For selected majors, eg, engineering, UCB will provide an edge over Dartmouth’s Thayer School, but otherwise Dartmouth probably has the stronger offering, even if it offers less breadth. In classroom terms, Dartmouth offers an 8/1 student faculty ratio with 64% of classes having fewer than 20 and only 8% of its classes having more than 50 students. UCB provides a 15/1 student/faculty ratio, 61% of classes with less than 20 students and 14% with more than 50. </p>
<p>Student quality also differs sharply. Dartmouth has a sizable edge in SAT comparisons (1450 avg vs. 1325). There will undoubtedly be a lot of very talented students at UCB, but the student body is not nearly as consistently strong as at Dartmouth. Also, there is a huge transfer population at UCB which takes in about 3000 transfers per year and the statistical profile of this group is unknown. Dartmouth took in 43 transfers last year.</p>
<p>Graduation rates also display pronounced differences. 4-yr and 6-yr rates at Dartmouth are 86% and 94% while UCB posts 61% and 89%. </p>
<p>On the non-academic side, UCB has much, much more to offer with a much more varied social life. Let’s face it-there is only so much to do in the north woods of New Hampshire. Once you get past the fraternities and the handful of bars on the tiny Main Street of Hanover, pickings get kinda slim for Dartmouth students. To compensate, the school does a good job of putting on some surprisingly good events at the Hopkins Center (aka the Hop), but the local area will not provide a lot of entertainment unless you are thinking in terms of outward bound-type activities (of which there are plenty near Dartmouth). As for UCB, the campus social life is bigger, better and more varied and it’s really not a very close comparison. Berkeley is a neat, if sometimes scruffy, city and there are plenty of retail shops and restaurants nearby to serve the students and the locals. And then there’s the SF Bay area which IMO is the greatest place to live in the entire USA. </p>
<p>Someone mentioned the weather. Don’t discount this, especially if you are coming from California. The differences are immense and the NH winters are long with much less sunlight and they are cold, the last few days notwithstanding. Here are the facts from the National Weather Service:</p>
<p>Sept Hi/Low
71/49 Dartmouth
72/56 UC Berkeley</p>
<p>Oct Hi/Low
59/37 Dartmouth
70/53 UC Berkeley</p>
<p>Nov Hi/Low
46/28 Dartmouth
62/48 UC Berkeley</p>
<p>Dec Hi/Low
34/16 Dartmouth
57/44 UC Berkeley</p>
<p>Jan Hi/Low
29/9 Dartmouth
56/44 UC Berkeley</p>
<p>Feb Hi/Low
34/12 Dartmouth
59/46 UC Berkeley</p>
<p>Mar Hi/Low
43/22 Dartmouth
61/47 UC Berkeley</p>
<p>Apr Hi/Low
57/33 Dartmouth
64/49 UC Berkeley</p>
<p>For athletic life, again UCB has a lot more to offer than Dartmouth. UCB has a nationally prominent athletic program that is well supported by the students and which plays a central role in the life of the undergraduate student. At Dartmouth, the vibe is completely different and the nature and quality of the sporting environment is much more akin to a high school than to a college like UCB. </p>
<p>So, it all comes down to what you are valuing most in your search. Academic quality differences exist and they favor Dartmouth, but they are not insurmountable as one can find some exceptional programs at UCB. But the weather, social and athletic life differences are very prominent and many of the opportunities are only available on one of the campuses (UCB).</p>
<p>Dartmouth is actually a school where people really play down their wealth. The most expensive car you're likely to see on campus is a jeep grand cherokee or similar. The culture of showing off just isn't there. </p>
<p>I wouldn't even take this into consideration to be honest. Personally Dartmouth's more intimate learning environment and strong focus on undergraduates is its strong selling point.</p>
<p>thank you all for your comments and I hope to make the right decision.</p>