<p>^correction B.S. not B.A haha</p>
<p>just be aware/warned that if you choose to go to Harvey Mudd, be prepared to work A LOT</p>
<p>missyujin, I’ve been to all the schools that I have admitted me. </p>
<p>Mudd can’t compare to Berkeley. The school is boring. There are less people to interact with. The education is overly cutthroat. Grade deflation. Poor graduation rate for a small size of school. There’s an obvious lack of school spirit. Nerdy people who can’t win a chick. Relatively poor infrastructure development. Poorer facilities. The only thing I like about it was the weather. Everything else were not up to par with Berkeley. Even in the prestige race.</p>
<p>“The school is boring.”</p>
<p>-Students love to have fun to get away from their workload. Clubs such as ultimate frisbee, art clubs, environmental and political clubs are popular. Pranking is huge at HMC with pranks such as filling up a roommate’s room with inflatable garbage bags. Also HMC has the best parties out of the Claremont colleges due to its loose alcohol policy. Students from the Claremont colleges as a result flock to HMC’s parties. But partying doesn’t get too out of control because of the workload. Dorm communities are strong, people love hanging out with people in their own dorms and building strong relationships.</p>
<p>“There are less people to interact with.”</p>
<p>True there are 750 people at HMC but there are 3,000 college students within a few blocks of the school. Also there is a strong sense of community among Mudders. Personally, I would rather have a few close friends than be friends with 20,000 people.</p>
<p>“The education is overly cutthroat.”</p>
<p>-What and the education at Berkeley is not overly cutthroat?</p>
<p>“Grade deflation.”</p>
<p>-I can’t see why this would be a bad thing. It only encourages their students to work harder than students at schools with grade inflation, giving the students great work ethic when they enter the real world.</p>
<p>“Poor graduation rate for a small size of school.”
-The curriculum is tough and frankly not everyone at the school can handle it. Thus, the low (if you consider 80% 6-year graduation rate low) graduation rate. UC-Berkeley has approximately the same graduation rate but not everyone is a science/engineering major there. Both schools are equal when it comes to graduation rates.</p>
<p>“There’s an obvious lack of school spirit.”
-Like I said, people love their school and love to have fun. HMC is rivals with Caltech. For example, once HMC students stole the memorial cannon from Caltech but returned it after Caltech’s president threatened to take legal action. Another time, HMC students added parenthesis to a freeway exit to read: California Institute Of Technology (Pasadena City College) Next Exit</p>
<p>“Nerdy people who can’t win a chick.”
-Stereotype, I considered HMC but I am not a nerdy person without a girlfriend :)</p>
<p>“Everything else were not up to par with Berkeley. Even in the prestige race.”
-Again, I have to say, prestige means nothing except to brag to other people. Engineering companies will recruit just as heavily at HMC than at Caltech or UCB. It’s not like you’re comparing UC-Berkeley to the University Of Idaho…</p>
<p>RML doesn’t know what he/she is talking about. If you want the best possible undergraduate engineering education, the decision is Mudd. Period. There is no discussion.</p>
<p>It will be self evident after your first few classes.</p>
<p>HMC Eng alum talking here… got the best possible job in the world at the most prestigious company in the industry… one that I am not allowed to name.</p>
<p>^ Well, that’s because you’re from Mudd. lol</p>
<p>If you consider prep for advanced grad school, consider each school’s entries on this page: [REED</a> COLLEGE PHD PRODUCTIVITY](<a href=“http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html]REED”>Doctoral Degree Productivity - Institutional Research - Reed College)</p>
<p>All, you need to keep in mind the context here – RML is an international who does not have any experience at US colleges or universities other than visiting and deciding where he/she wants to attend. As with most internationals, the focus is on Ph.D. prestige (faculty) and physical resources. Internationals tend not to understand the value of the intense faculty interaction at schools like Mudd and Caltech in the sciences, and Reed, Bowdoin and several others in broad disciplines.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, if that’s indeed true, how come the graduation rates of these schools are low?</p>
<p>^ Where true, it’s because they are really hard, with heavy workloads, but the payoff is there. The faculties are typically very demanding, learn students’ limits, and push them beyond. These schools can be quite stressful, and are not for everyone.</p>
<p>Quote:
"Internationals tend not to understand the value of the intense faculty interaction at schools like Mudd and Caltech in the sciences, and Reed, Bowdoin and several others in broad disciplines. "</p>
<h2>RML replied: “Well, if that’s indeed true, how come the graduation rates of these schools are low?” </h2>
<p>because the faculty at these schools have high standards! some students adjust, not all do. The college/university <em>should</em> not adjust its performance standards to cater to those who are not able to keep up. Surely as an international you can understand that catering to the american sense of entitlement so prevalent in this generation of college applicants is counterproductive.</p>
<p>Both are fantastic. Choose the school that seems to fit you best as a person.</p>
<p>Profs in National Academy of Engineering:
Harvey Mudd: 0
Berkeley: 85</p>
<p>Engineering Faculty:
Harvey Mudd (entire): [Faculty</a> and Staff](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/academicsclinicresearch/academicdepartments/engineering1/people.html]Faculty”>http://www.hmc.edu/academicsclinicresearch/academicdepartments/engineering1/people.html)</p>
<p>Berkeley:
EECS faculty: [Faculty</a> List | EECS at UC Berkeley](<a href=“http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Faculty/Lists/list.shtml]Faculty”>Faculty - EECS at Berkeley)
Civil faculty: [Faculty</a> by Name - UC Berkeley Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering](<a href=“http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/faculty/]Faculty”>http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/faculty/)
Mechanical faculty: [Faculty</a> List, Mechanical Engineering, UC Berkeley](<a href=“http://www.me.berkeley.edu/new/faculty/index.html]Faculty”>http://www.me.berkeley.edu/new/faculty/index.html)
Nuclear faculty: [Faculty</a> - Nuclear Engineering Department | The Nuclear Engineering Department At UC Berkeley](<a href=“http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/Faculty]Faculty”>Faculty)
Materials faculty: [People</a> @ MSE Dept. University of California - Berkeley](<a href=“http://www.mse.berkeley.edu/faculty.php]People”>http://www.mse.berkeley.edu/faculty.php)
Industrial faculty: [Faculty[/url</a>]
Bioengineering faculty: [url=<a href=“http://bioeng.berkeley.edu/people.php]Faculty[/url”>http://bioeng.berkeley.edu/people.php]Faculty[/url</a>]
Chemical faculty: [url=<a href=“http://cheme.berkeley.edu/faculty/faculty.html]Department”>http://cheme.berkeley.edu/faculty/faculty.html]Department</a> of Chemical Engineering - University of California at Berkeley - Faculty by Name](<a href=“http://www.ieor.berkeley.edu/People/Faculty/index.htm]Faculty[/url”>http://www.ieor.berkeley.edu/People/Faculty/index.htm)</p>
<p>In response to the above:
</p>
<p>the National Academy of Engineering distinction doesn’t matter when choosing a school…</p>
<p>^ Different strokes for different folks.</p>
<p>IF you’re set on a pursuing a particular engineering discipline (like I was), Berkeley is probably a better choice. You’ll have more profs dedicated to the discipline of interest and have a larger variety of courses. </p>
<p>IF you’re unsure about what engineering discipline you want to pursue and you prefer a more intimate environment, Harvey Mudd is great.</p>
<p>UCB- I agree.</p>
<p>As an addendum, some people would claim that Mudd students have to go to graduate school in order to get jobs, hence the high rate of PhD production. This is clearly not the case, as can be seen from salary data. In fact, only a little over a third of Mudd students go to graduate school.</p>
<p>The average starting salary at Mudd in 2008 was $65,000 to $69,999. This compares reasonably well to Caltech (average $70,000).</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/about/fastfacts1.html[/url]”>http://www.hmc.edu/about/fastfacts1.html</a>
<a href=“http://www.career.caltech.edu/life/salaries/BS%202008%20Salaries.pdf[/url]”>http://www.career.caltech.edu/life/salaries/BS%202008%20Salaries.pdf</a></p>
<p>Going back a few years, the average starting salary at Mudd in 2003 was $53,900. That compares well with the average starting salary of MIT ($54,904) and quite favorably with that of Berkeley engineering graduates ($41-55,000).</p>
<p>[HMC</a> Highlights](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/highlights/]HMC”>http://www.hmc.edu/highlights/)
[Salary</a> Survey - MIT Careers Office](<a href=“http://web.mit.edu/career/www/salary/03summary.html]Salary”>http://web.mit.edu/career/www/salary/03summary.html)
<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/CarDest/2003Majors.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/CarDest/2003Majors.stm</a></p>
<p>^ Engineering employers are very egalatarian…of course they are going to hire HMC grads and pay them roughly the same.</p>
<p>Regarding PhDs: since HMC is smaller, it tends to attract a greater proportion of more academic minded, research-oriented students. You only need a PhD in engineering if your plans are to become a professor…or you want to work as a research engineer in industry. If you want to move into management, a PhD is unnecessary.</p>
<p>let’s ask this:
what is the point of undergraduate engineering?
does the OP even know what engineering is about?
do you know what makes an effective engineer?</p>
<p>i’m doing the detailed design of a launch pad for a space rocket (15 ft diameter) for the next few months. i did not major in mechanical or structural engineering - how am i able to do this out of mudd as a new grad? how about propulsion systems? controls? electrical?</p>
<p>the key is a damn good engineering/science/math education that allows you to figure out the details because you have a strong STEMs basis to work from.</p>
<p>NAE is good and fun but does not define you as a good professor.</p>
<p>“The school is boring.”</p>
<p>It’s true. The people having fun while doing all the work and blah blah blah is bull ****.
It all comes to how u can define “fun.” If u consider just talking with ur friends and studying together as fun, then I guess it’s fine</p>
<p>“There are less people to interact with.”
“True there are 750 people at HMC but there are 3,000 college students within a few blocks of the school. Also there is a strong sense of community among Mudders. Personally, I would rather have a few close friends than be friends with 20,000 people.”</p>
<p>Friends with 20000 people is nonsense. For either school u go to ur gonna have few close friends. Just more people there are around u, more broader pool you can be friends with. Besides, small school means that if u have someone u hate, ur gonna have to see the person everyday.</p>
<p>“The education is overly cutthroat.”</p>
<p>-What and the education at Berkeley is not overly cutthroat?</p>
<p>Definitely not as cutthroat as HMC</p>
<p>“Grade deflation.”</p>
<p>-I can’t see why this would be a bad thing. It only encourages their students to work harder than students at schools with grade inflation, giving the students great work ethic when they enter the real world.</p>
<p>Deflation is bad. Yeah, yeah, u have the encouraging blah blah blah. It’s just an excuse. Grade deflation will just screw the person up to prepare tests, not study the actual material itself, and it will screw them up for applying to grad school too.</p>
<p>“Poor graduation rate for a small size of school.”
-The curriculum is tough and frankly not everyone at the school can handle it. Thus, the low (if you consider 80% 6-year graduation rate low) graduation rate. UC-Berkeley has approximately the same graduation rate but not everyone is a science/engineering major there. Both schools are equal when it comes to graduation rates.</p>
<p>I heard graduation in HMC is harder than getting in. So, probably harder than Berkeley</p>
<p>“There’s an obvious lack of school spirit.”
-Like I said, people love their school and love to have fun. HMC is rivals with Caltech. For example, once HMC students stole the memorial cannon from Caltech but returned it after Caltech’s president threatened to take legal action. Another time, HMC students added parenthesis to a freeway exit to read: California Institute Of Technology (Pasadena City College) Next Exit</p>
<p>That is just one case. HMC students like their school, but they don’t brag about it and such. School spirit is definitely bad there.</p>
<p>“Nerdy people who can’t win a chick.”
-Stereotype, I considered HMC but I am not a nerdy person without a girlfriend</p>
<p>Stereotype, yes. But it is a legitimate stereotype. Yes, not everyone’s like that, but a lot are.</p>
<p>Berkeley’s a great school and cool place to live. There will be much more opportunity to explore different things and meet a wider variety of people than at Mudd. But being a huge graduate-oriented institution, you can certainly get lost in the crowd. As for engineering, Berkeley is one of the very best in the world…as it is in most fields :-)</p>