<p>My daughter is trying to choose between UC Berkeley and UC Santa Barbara. Obviously, Berkeley has the better reputation and a more exciting location. But I'm wondering which campus would provide the best overall undergraduate experience. She's been awarded a Regents Scholarship at Santa Barbara with four years of guaranteed housing, priority registration etc. Also, the Santa Barbara location seems safer to me as a concerned mom. She's interviewing for the Berkeley Regents scholarship this weekend, but apparently it does not include priority registration. My daughter is very sweet, but a bit shy. She worked very hard in high school and wants to attend a school where she'll have a good social as well as academic life. She's visited both campuses and liked them both.</p>
<p>My daughter was accepted at both last year -- she ended up going out of state to college but she told me that she would have chosen Santa Barbara over Berkeley -- even though I felt Berkeley was much, much stronger in her areas of interest. But the word that she had from other kids is that Berkeley is a rough place for undergrads -- huge classes, etc. My son had a job that took him onto college campuses and he said he absolutely hated working at Berkeley; he loved Santa Barbara and was pretty much the one in the family who urged his sister to apply there. I've never been to UCSB, but my impression is that it simply is a warmer, friendlier place than Berkeley. (I did attend Berkeley as a law student -- I liked it there, but the law school is removed from everything else, so it didn't give me any insight as to the undergraduate experience. My younger brother attended Berkeley as an undergrad and flunked out -- he told me recently that the huge math class with 800 students was what did him in. (I think he had entered as a math major)</p>
<p>Anyway, I don't mean to bash Berkeley, I love the place -- but your sweet, somewhat shy daughter may just find Santa Barbara to be a better place for her, especially with the perks that come with the Regents. I'd suggest that she look closely at offerings and expectations for her intended or likely major(s) to help get an idea of what the true difference is academically. </p>
<p>It seems that of all my daughter's friends from high school, the one who is happiest in college is the one who opted for UCSB.</p>
<p>A Regents at UCSB with priority registration is a pretty darned good thing. UCSB may not have the prestige factor as Berkeley but you can get a pretty darned good education there and in terms of those useless USNW rankings, UCSB is still Top 50 among research U's (as opposed to LAC's).</p>
<p>From personal experience, it's a great place to go to school if sometimes a horrible place to have to study.</p>
<p>TD, a UCSB Groucho</p>
<p>I also vote for SB. B can be very intimidating for a shy person, and getting first dibs on selecting classes is a huge plus at any University! SB is terrific, and is not nearly as much of a "party "school "anymore.</p>
<p>both campuses have large classes. Indeed, there is no shortage of large classes at any UC, so that's kind of a wash, IMO. All UCs have huge bureacracies, as well.</p>
<p>Berkeley is definitely more competitive, with all that that implies. SB is definitely more social -- rumor in our local high school is that SB has the highest STD rate in the nation. :D</p>
<p>For me, it'd come down to planned major, and finding some profs that she might like to work with. If your D interviewed for a Regent's at Cal, it means she is in the very top of the applicant pool for that campus so the competition shouldn't be an issue, unless premed.</p>
<p>Ilsa Vista can be a little crazy, too. Not sure it's all that much safer than Bezerkely, but I assume that it is. Two extreme positions from girls attending Cal from our HS: one absolutely loves and embraces it, and the other is afraid to go out at night - both were high achieving, non-shy types. Go figure. :)</p>
<p>Just checked other threads -- your D is interested in journalism, which is not an undergrad program at either campus. For grad school purposes, attendance at either won't much matter.</p>
<p>A lot depends on your daughter's area of interest. Berkeley may be a better choice for humanities, especially if she is thinking of graduate school or law school (I worked with a partner in a law firm who never stopped regretting that he went to UCSB when his twin brother went to Stanford); first-year science at Berkeley is brutal, but humanities is not; there are even small classes in many of the departments for first-years; the seminar program is great. If your daughter is thinking of being an English major, the department is one of the best in the country, along with Yale and Harvard, and many of the classes are not large. There is a graduate journalism school that is first-rate. You needn't fear Berkeley -- it is safe (though at night, walking around the campus alone is not advisable, as it would not be in most any city). There are many opportunities to make friends in the dorms, which are now available past freshman year. The area is full of cultural opportunities, both in SF and Berkeley, and it is more cosmopolitan and wackier (if you like that) than conservative Santa Barbara. Then, UCSB is half the size, but still large, a fun place in a lovely spot with fantastic weather, but it is still a "party school" -- which is not a bad thing, but it also makes demands on a shy student. A kid I know who went there from a public high school and is in the Honor's Program finds the classes fairly easy -- and that many kids have high-schoolish attitudes toward the classes (doing the minimum for the grade), but he enjoys the honor's add-on to the classes; but in one, the honor's aspect is that he learns to surf. Does this say something? The Regent's scholarship program there looks great and offers 5x as much as Berkeley's, but a Berkeley Regent's scholarship is more prestigious. That said, it could be a tough choice.</p>
<p>Has your D considered any of the other UCs that might be a better fit? Both of my Ds were accepted to UCB and UCSB but one ended up choosing UCSD and the other UCLA. I'm sure there'd be less competition at UCSB than at UCB since it's easier to get in to and it's in a nice location but from what I've heard the 'party-school' reputation is well deserved and more significant than the other UCs. UCB is in an urban location with some scruffy areas around it which doesn't suit everyone but it has a top academic reputation.</p>
<p>An anecdote - When visiting UCSB with my Ds to check it out I parked the car on campus, got out, and promptly saw a pair of girl's panties on the ground next to the car. I told the girls "Never mind - back in the car - we're outta here"!
(not really - we went on to tour the campus).</p>
<p>I agree with others to drill down on the specific major or academic area she's interested in to narrow it and to also consider that she needs to live at the place for 4-5 years so she needs to be comfortable with the area.</p>
<p>I know many students at both. I wouldn't say that the students who ended up at Berkeley are smarter or are less of a partier.
I have never been to IV on a weekend night and I know it can be quite a scene. During the day you don't get that party feeling at all. I know I enjoy a certain burrito stand and I am quite comfortable eating there as a middle aged woman. Also many students end up moving out of IV after a few years. </p>
<p>For many of the students in my kids high school UCSB is number 1 on their list. They have grown up in the surrounding community and don't feel any desire to leave. These are all bright kids.
Our philosophy is that we hope our kids come home to live in SB one day but we feel like they need to experience living in another area so we did not encourage them to enroll at UCSB.
The school of Creative Studies might be of interest to your D.</p>
<p>To the OP: Did your daughter consider Pomona College? UCSB, along with Univ. of British Columbia in Vancouver, is one of the most beautiful campuses in the world . Academics are excellent, but some students succumb to the many temptations. This can be good or bad depending in large part on your daughter's post undergraduate plans. I suspect that neither school is really the best choice for your child and, therefore, am wondering if she applied to other schools, and, if so, which schools. If there was a right answer, you would probably not be seeking advice here. The lure of an academic scholarship is powerful-and for good reasons- let alone the luxury of priority registration. If, however, your post is just seeking confirmation that UCSB is a good school, rest assured as it is a borderline great school. Berkeley (Cal) is a great school; its just not for everyone. Info. regarding any other schools to which your daughter applied will enable us to offer much better advice. As an afterthought, a shy person may be uncomfortable at Cal, and a smaller more homogenious environment might be better as many students have difficulty adjusting to college life away from home during the first semester or so.</p>
<p>Yes, my daughter applied to a lot of schools. As far as UCs, she also applied to UCLA -- which I hear is even bigger than Berkeley! -- Davis and Santa Cruz. She liked Davis and Santa Cruz when we did a quick visit last summer. We'll tour UCLA once we hear if she's admitted. She also applied to a number of private schools: Pomona and Claremont McKenna -- which I loved, but she thinks they might be boring socially -- Also, we're from Southern California and she'd like to experience another area of the country. She also applied to Davidson, Kenyon, Oberlin, Dartmouth, Duke, Boston College, Georgetown, William and Mary, Yale and USC. She just got accepted to USC, but no word yet on financial aid. The problem with these schools is that most of them --except Kenyon, Oberlin -- are reaches. And even if she gets in, we can't afford to send her unless she gets some good financial aid. We're one of those middle class families that's right on the borderline of qualifying for aid, so I have no idea what if anything we'll get. She'd love to go to Duke or Dartmouth. She worked really hard in high school -- no boys, no dates, few parties -- and having a good time in college as well as a good education is a priority for her. Her academic interests are English, Spanish, humanities. She's definitely not pursuing a math or science degree. Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide! How does your daughter like UCLA? I heard they have an honors program. Do you know anything about it?</p>
<p>Fiskelove,</p>
<p>Last year around this time we were strongly encouraging our son to attend UCD instead of UCB for some of the reasons you mentioned. We are a farm family and I thought that UCB would be just too difficult, too urban and too overwhelming. I, too, worried about the horrors of huge classes etc.</p>
<p>Well, my son selected UCB and he couldn't be happier. Most of my fears were unfounded.</p>
<p>Fiskelove, if your daughter is a Regent's candidate at Cal, those other colleges are less reach-y than you think. Obviously there is a coin toss element to any of them -- given the percentages -- but your daughter must be well within the ballpark for consideration. Sounds to me like you will have a lot of choices come April.</p>
<p>Kenyon and Oberlin are no less reaches than most of the other schools you mention (look at the admission rates), and both have terrific English and writing programs; on the other hand a student who is nominated for a Regent's Scholarship at UC Berkeley likely has high grades/SAT's and strong extracurriculars and would probably find Yale and maybe Dartmouth (without a legacy) to be the true reach schools on the list -- they are reaches for everyone. She may get into many of these schools, some with merit scholarships, so you should wait and see, then visit some of the options.</p>
<p>Obviously, I'm hoping she's admitted and can afford to attend one of the smaller private schools. But I just want to be prepared in case she's not. Where do your kids go and how do they like it? Incidentally, I went to Oberlin and while I got a great education, it was a bit dull socially. I'm from a small town in Ohio so it wasn't that I was missing the excitement of a big city, I just found that there were not a lot of organized social activities. The one dance each year was the gay and lesbian ball. My daughter has heard my complaints about this and wants to be sure she goes to a school where there are fun social activities as well as good academics.</p>
<p>Your daughter will have a great social life at Dartmouth if she attends. Oberlin, Kenyon and Duke are also quite social. Davidson is a very serious academic atmosphere in a beautiful location. Was she a Belk scholarship finalist at Davidson? Boston College offers a good social life. Georgetown offers a more refined and somewhat sophisticated social life- especially when compared to Dartmouth (even the admissions office tries to tame the reputation by calling it a "country club" even though the movie Animal House was based on Dartmouth parties). The Claremont Colleges are social-but not wild. All of these schools are great schools with attractive campuses. Based on this complete list of schools, I suspect that neither UCSanta Barbara nor Cal will come into play other than for purely financial reasons. I would not expect any significant financial aid from WM. & Mary as it is a state school. Possibly some merit money, but Virginia is tough on non-residents when it comes to money. Oberlin and Davidson make an interesting combination; this is the first time that I have ever seen one apply to both! I'm putting my money on Dartmouth. Does Davidson know that your daughter applied to Oberlin, and vice-versa? If so, I am anxious to read of the results. Good luck and please keep us informed.</p>
<p>mom60:</p>
<p>Just to clarify - I think UCSB is a well-respected top school with bright students. It's not quite as difficult to be accepted to as some of the other UCs and I've heard there wasn't quite as much competition between the students - especially all those planning to go to med school. Most students view that as a plus.</p>
<p>Regarding the 'party' atmosphere, it seems to always be confirmed when talking to students that attend there. Given that, I'm sure there are many students who aren't the proverbial 'partiers'. It could be that it has more of a rep because it has so many non-commuter students due to its location away from the major population centers of the bay area, LA, and San Diego. That's my theory at least.</p>
<p>My son made the decision between UCSB and UCB last year. He got into the College of Creative Studies at UCSB which really sounded perfect for him. He decided on Berkeley and he is glad he did. He is really happy there. And I am happy because he is 30 min away instead of 6 hours (there is no easy way to get from the Bay Area to Santa Barbara.)</p>
<p>Ah safety. I have a weekend home in Santa Barbara and while it's a beautiful, safe community, the party scene is out of control. Drunk kids around town are the norm. Bail bond storefronts abound near campus. I wouldn't feel my child would be necessarily safe there. IMHO, there is a hugh quality of education between the 2 schools. Don't get me wrong, SB has amazing professors due to its location. Several are friends. They don't however, send their kids there. It's the peer group.</p>
<p>I think the UCs are very effective at using Regents and other scholarships to entice middle class families who are already struggling to pay for a CA lifestyle. It's easy to lose track of fit. The girl you describe may well be a fish out of water at SB. Most student's number 1 reason for going there (as surveyed by local rag) is the beach.</p>
<p>Supposed to be lots of drinking at Dartmouth, Duke, Yale; lots of dope at UCSC. That may not warrant writing off these schools; there are probably many who don't partake or do so within reason. Because of UCSB's location, many would love to teach there -- the faculty looks excellent for that reason, though UCB is in another league in some departments, e.g., English. I knew several students eons ago who left UCLA for Santa Barbara, for the greater ease of life there. UCLA suffers from being a commuter school.</p>
<p>I agree UCB is a better ranked school and will most likely have a more motivated student body.
From our local high schools an admit to UCSB is likely to have above a 4.0 in gate and ap classes and a high SAT score. The students I know who have chosen UCSB are not slackers. I don't know about the admits that aren't from SB schools.
I happen to quite a few UCSB profs who have no problem sending their kids to UCSB and letting them live in IV.
UCSB is a big school and it can be a fit for all types of students.</p>