UC Berkeley or UCLA? Complicated situation. Please, advise!

Transfer Students UC Transfers
1

<p>Dear all,</p>

<p>So I was admitted to both UCB and UCLA as a junior transfer for Fall '11.</p>

<p>The thing is I'm on military training right now in Texas until September 13, 2011. I joined the Navy Reserve last year, and the requirements include completion of basic and job training (which is a full-time job for me right now), and then I will work only 1 weekend per month.</p>

<p>UCLA qtr begins on Sept 17, when UCB starts on Aug 26. So I'd still make it home before the quarter at UCLA begins. This is, however, not the case with CAL :(</p>

<p>I talked to UCB advisors and their VA rep, all they're saying is I should defer my enrollment to Spring '12 because missing about 1 month of classes is not a good way to start your GPA.
I get it - it makes sense, but I'm 23 y.o., and still want to go to Law School after my undergrad, so I don't want to waste a semester for no good reason.</p>

<p>The amounts of finaid are almost the same ($23,566 for Cal, and $25,500 for UCLA).</p>

<p>Majors: UCLA - Pre-Psychology, UCB - Legal Studies.</p>

<p>I already SIR'ed to Cal, but the deferment keeps bugging me, so I'm having second thoughts.</p>

<p>I really need to hear some objective arguments, some pros and cons to help me make an informed decision. I'm originally from ukraine, so this is new for me. All I know is that Cal is ranked a bit higher than UCLA, and that Cal is more law school oriented, wheter UCLA is more for pre-med. i also read a few posts/articles online that any "legal" majors are frowned upon by Law Schools, and that I should major in something else. I was actually accepted to the College of Letters and Science in general, and will have to declare my major once I'm enrolled, so I guess that means I could pick a diffenet major (provided I have some prereqs out of the way already). </p>

<p>If you were me, and wanted a good GPA (3.9ish) to get accepted into a top 14 law school, what route would you choose and why?</p>

<p>Please, help. I don't want to make the wrong choice and then regret it for the rest of my life :(</p>

2

<p>Are you planning to apply to law school during your senior year such that you’ll be able to attend law school immediately following your undergrad studies? If so, go to UCLA because otherwise you’ll be one cycle off for law school admissions. If you’re going to take a gap year anyway, then both schools will work perfectly fine - it just comes down to where you would rather spend the two years.</p>

3

<p>I’m probably going to take a 6-12 months period off to study for LSAT.
I’m more concerned about being a “spring” student. there’s this stigma on CC that spring admits (even though I’m not exactly an ‘admit’ for the spring semester, but same idea) have a hard time with pretty much EVERYTHING at Cal: starting from housing and ending with making friends.
I want to make the best of my last 2 years of undergrad, you know?</p>

<p>What about majors? UCLA’s Psych (clinical) is #4 in the nation. Legal Studies is an interdisciplinary major that is unranked. Plus, like I mentioned in my original post, I read that law schools don’t like “pre-law” majors. Is that grounded?</p>

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<p>I graduated from Cal in 2010, and the spring admit stigma is there maybe for the entering 17 yr old freshmen. By my senior year, I had either forgotten or did not care who was admitted spring and who wasn’t. </p>

<p>As a pre-law myself currently working and preparing for the LSAT, I can tell you that your major really doesn’t matter for law school. The admission formula goes as follows: GPA + LSAT. That’s it. Although many of fellow CC’ers will criticize me for saying this, major in something that can get you the GPA. My major was in a subject that is known to be particularly difficult, and although I feel like I’ve learned a lot, the truth is I regret it because for the amount of work I put in my GPA suffered from deflation when compared to those who majored in something else. I mean this in the most non-condescending way, but I think psych and legal studies are commonly considered to be relatively easy, so I think you’ve made the right decision on that front.</p>

<p>If you were planning to apply to PhD programs in Psych, it would make sense to include departmental rankings in evaluating the two choices, but if law school is your ultimate goal then it really becomes a moot point.</p>

<p>In regards to social life, I really don’t think you’ll have any trouble fitting in. As long as you’re open to meeting new people, they will be receptive of you. Starting in the fall may provide you with a more structured way of forming friendships but in my experience the closest friends will be ones bonded by a common interest, whether it be through ethnic, religious, or political clubs.</p>

5

<p>will the law schools see that i began in spring and assume i was a spring admit or waitlisted or something? will that influence their admission decision?</p>

<p>my q’s might look silly for you right now, but i’m freaking out, the deadline for SIR is almost here and I’m torn between two great institutions with no good reason to decline either offer :(</p>

<p>p.s. what type of law are you going to be practicing?</p>

6

<p>No problem, it’s a step that I went through several years go as well so I completely understand. Law schools will not care that you’re a spring admit. Law school is about your undergraduate performance, not high school performance. As long as you have a high undergraduate GPA and LSAT score with decent extracurriculars, you’re in a great position for most law schools. </p>

<p>Visit lawschoolnumbers.com to get a general sense of where you need to be when applying to top schools.</p>

<p>My ultimate goal is to work for organizations such as the Amnesty International, but the well-known NGO positions are extremely tough to come by. It’s a long shot, but I am shooting for it nonetheless. More broadly, I want to go into public interest, and I also have a particular interest for the many immigrant communities in the United States.</p>

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<p>calalumni is correct.</p>

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<p>Here are the outcomes of [Legal Majors](<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm&lt;/a&gt;) at Cal:</p>

<p>Results Summary
Graduated Responded Percent<br>
Graduates138, Respondents 37, Pct. Responded 27% </p>

<p>Post-Graduate Activities </p>

<p>Employed Attending
Grad School Seeking
Employment Other
Endeavors<br>
Employed 43%, 18 of 37
Grad School 19%, 7 of 37, s/b 4 of 37 or 11%
Seeking Employment 22%, 9 pf 37
Other Endeavors 16%, 6 of 37 (numbers don’t add up with correction) </p>

<p>Employment Sectors & Average Salary*
For Profit Nonprofit Education Government Average Salary*
69% 5% 13% 13% $45,822
*Not all respondents report salary. Majors with four or less reported salaries have no salary information shown to protect the confidentiality of student data. </p>

<p>Employers & Job Titles
California Attending Physicians OTHER
Capitol Television News Service Reporter
Cisco Systems Inc Business Associate
Deloitte and Touche LLP Consultant
E and J Gallo Territory Sales Manager
Epic Systems Corp Quality Control
Ernst and Young LLP Audit Staff
FETCH! Pet Care OTHER
Google Inc Legal Assistant
Immigration Law Firm Administrative Assistant
Make-A-Wish Foundation of America OTHER
Sonderhoff & Einsel Law and Patent Office Legal Section Assistant
Sonoma Technology Inc Legal Section Assistant
State of California Disability Evaluation Analyst
United States Department of Homeland Security OTHER
United States Dept of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics OTHER
United States Environmental Protection Agency Administrative Analyst
University of California Berkeley Student Affairs Assistant </p>

<p>Graduate Schools Attending
Field of Study Graduate School Degree
LAW Harvard University JD(Law)
LAW University of California-Berkeley JD(Law)
LAW University of Chicago JD(Law)
LAW University of the Pacific JD(Law)</p>

<p>It appears most will seek initial employment and attend law school later. </p>

<p>You might want to seek l-school asap as you’re 23. Figure two years at Cal, 25, and add three, four, five years – the latter two if you work concurrently while attending l school part time, and that could put you > 30 once you finish l school.</p>

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<p>Whether you defer Cal for one semester or end up at UCLA - I don’t think you can go wrong. They’re excellent schools! I say stick with Cal if that’s where you really want to go, and defer to Spring 2012 because of the timing. Plus I don’t think law schools will really be bothered that you started at Cal a semester later, since, as others have said, getting into a top 14 is really about GPA+LSAT score. And if plus if you did want to change your majors you are accepted to Cal in the college of L&S - a great option to have! </p>

<p>Best of luck to you SmartPants!</p>

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<p>I kinda agree that you should go to Cal if it’s your dream school…but the whole Spring admission would kill me too. I swore up and down that I would NOT attend Cal if I was admitted for Spring. Luckily, I got Fall, but I would have gone to UCLA in a HEART BEAT had it gone the other way.
I just don’t see a reason for you to delay your education for a slightly higher ranking UC when your army return date thing PERFECTLY coincides with when UCLA starts.</p>

<p>But I’m sure you’ll be happy wherever you go :smiley: haha just my 2 cents and good luck!</p>

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<p>^ I have a hard time believing that redoplease-i think u would’ve chosen CAL either way, from your posts you <3 that schools SO much xD jk jk</p>

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<p>LOL chailatte - I just hate Spring admission more than I love Berkeley :confused: But I got lucky, and it worked out for me in the end. WOOOOOOOOOOOO BERKELEY</p>

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<p>thanks guys :slight_smile:
well, i guess I’m gonna be a golden bear.</p>

<p>what major would you guys recommend that I could use in case I decide not go to to Law School? the info about the Legal Studies alumni is not very impressive, only a few people actually got good jobs in big companies… :(</p>

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<p>btw, redoplease, I wasn’t a spring admit. I was accepted for Fall '11, I will have to defer to Spring because I won’t be back home on time to begin the Fall semester. I’m on military training in Texas unitl Sept 13, 2011.
Ugh, I kind of regret that I signed up for the Reserves now :frowning: it wasn’t supposed to overlap with my school, but they changed the schedule while I was in bootcamp :(</p>

<p>oh well, everything happens for a reason…</p>

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<p>SmartPants, another interesting fact is that Legal Studies majors have one of the lowest average score on the LSAT. If you’re looking for majors with the best employment prospects, I’d suggest Business (Haas), Economics, Statistics, Applied Mathematics, EECS, IEOR and to a lesser extent Political Science, EEP, and PEIS.</p>

<p>A little dated, but check this out:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.uic.edu/cba/cba-depts/economics/undergrad/table.htm[/url]”>http://www.uic.edu/cba/cba-depts/economics/undergrad/table.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I have one friend that got in to Cal for Spring (just finished her first semester), and she seems to be having a great time. She roomed with people she knew out of cc so she didn’t deal with housing stuff, so I can’t say much for that. As for friends, you can make them anywhere, tbh. You just have to be willing to be outgoing, get involved with organizations, etc. I was in a club that has diff chapters all over the state (including Berkeley), and from what I’ve seen, a lot of Berkeley kids who have their cliques formed won’t reach out as willingly unless you make the first move. But that’s just from the people I’ve met.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t let the stigma or the idea that it’ll take you “more” time get to you. If you REALLY want to get out in the same time, you could take classes over the several summer sessions they have – but I would rather take my time and get good grades than rush just to finish in 1.5 years. </p>

<p>I’m an English major who may/may not go to Law School as well, so that’s another possible major you could consider too. From what I’ve seen schools just care about grades and LSATs for the most part. I honestly don’t think UCLA will be THAT much easier than Berkeley; UCLA does have great humanities/social science departments as well. </p>

<p>But those just my two cents!</p>

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<p>lol I know you weren’t originally a Spring admit…but now you are due to your deferral.</p>

<p>:D</p>

<p>And to add to that list, Philosophy majors are also said to do well on the LSAT.</p>

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<p>I’m not good at math. The only math I can tolerate is Statistics (which I’ve already taken and gotten an A). I miserably suck at algebra and will definitely go down with calculus. I know it will be a major part of the busecon, econ major or even stats, so I don’t think I’m gonna go for it and risk my GPA.</p>

<p>Philosophy is at the top of the list though. But it will not be easy to get a job right out of undergrad if I don’t do law school afterward…</p>

<p>Maybe, I should just go to UCLA and major in clinical psych…</p>

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<p>english is not my first language. as a matter of fact, i moved to the U.S. only 4 years ago, and still struggle sometimes when trying to express my thoughts.
I can’t imagine writing creative essays (i mean, Berkeley level “creative”, not my CC). So I probably won’t end up graduating with honors from that dept. lol</p>

<p>Philosophy sounds good, but then as a BA by itself it’s a waste.</p>

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<p>Or you could study psychology at Berkeley. In fact I have a friend who majored in it and is headed to Harvard for law next year!</p>