<p>Our son has been accepted at both schools. He wants to do business which he can start in freshman year at Cal Poly but would have to compete for a place at Haas at the end of sophomore year at UCB. He is leaning towards Cal Poly (thinks risk of not getting into Haas is too great, thinks social scene at Cal Poly would be more fun, thinks UCB would be a lot of pressure). We think he should definitely go to UCB, given its prestige, but want the final decision to be his. Does he have a valid point? Does UCB have a good social scene? Would he be crazy to turn UCB down? Help!!</p>
<p>As a completely unbiased parent with no personal experience at each school. Would he be crazy to turn down UCB? YES!! As far as the social scene, though, would he be comfortable with the ultra liberal UCB over the far more conservative Cal Poly (and there must be some pockets of sanity at UCB somewhere, right)? Is he just considering what he thinks is the easier option?</p>
<p>One thing I do know-kids change their majors often, even when they are certain of what they are doing. It can be quite hard to change majors at Cal Poly. I would have him focus much more on; which school would be a place that he would enjoy, and fit in at? Which place feels like home? Just because many other people are high pressure at UCB, would he have to act the same way? Cal Poly kids probably work hard too. Where can he see himself being the happiest–forget the major, both are good schools.</p>
<p>But as a parent, I would still think–passing up UCB, are you crazy? It is a fortunate dilemma to be in!</p>
<p>Cal Poly SLO has a number of excellent programs, and is well known for its architecture program. In terms of prestige, its business dept. is not near par with Cal’s Haas.</p>
<p>Let’s put “prestige” aside after I tell you where I’m coming from on that issue. For me, prestige is one of those wobbler words, because imo, it’s mostly subjective, but does include an element of objectivity because it can affect (also imo) employers’ sometimes warped views of talented young people who interview with them. Employers sometimes start off in determining whether they’ll even see someone based on what college the applicant went to. They fail to look at the whole package, sometimes including whether the applicant was working two part time jobs and had to go to night school to learn the same thing at Brand X school as the kid with the big name school who did nothing but go to college and was supported by his/her parents. Responsibility, work ethic, talent, and the ability to successfully multi-task should all be considered. But fact of the matter is, they only do if the student can get his/her foot in the door.</p>
<p>Now, it is true that Haas has a pool of talented students competing for limited spots and it can get fierce and exhausting – but for those who think that the sole purpose of college is to get a good paying job at the end of it (which right now is almost a pipe dream!) rather than the complete college experience and have in their minds planned out the rest of their working future, taking on UCB and Haas will definitely have its rewards if successful.</p>
<p>Most 18 year olds, however, have no clue as to what they want to be when they grow up, and even if they know a general area (like business, or medicine, or law) that interests them, there’s a huge variety of jobs within each area of interest that they may not have considered. Further, there’s the possiblility of changing majors (because, at 18, the majority of students are really not that focused on planning out or having planned out their entire future work life). Students seem to get a better sense of where they want to go and what they want to do after a few years of college under their belt, and it may end up being something completely different than they ever thought. </p>
<p>For explorers who want to partake in the entire college experience (and looking at what you state your son is looking for, that seems to be true), they’re likely to be more successful in college if they are allowed to have that experience, along with the ability to change their minds as to career and major path if that’s what happens along that path of exploration.</p>
<p>Now to tell you a little about what you really want to hear: yes, Berkeley has a very good social scene, but in order for a student who partakes in it to be successful, he needs to be able to strike a healthy balance between the two, and he needs to be really self-motivated in terms of knowing when he needs to be up all night working on a project, and spending more time working than playing. Having said that, all students need down time, and students need that to reduce stress and anxiety. There’s a lively Greek population at Cal. There’s fantastic sports and groups/clubs to partake in. There’s very spirited political groups as well. In the dorms, the RAs have parties, and do a lot of social things to get students to mix and have fun. Dorms can get pretty lively at the weekends. </p>
<p>As an alternative, you might (quickly) look into the prospects of starting off at Cal and transferring if it’s too much. That’s not unheard of. Or starting off at SLO, doing well, then going to a great graduate business school – that might be the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>Ultimately, as you say, the final decision must be your son’s. If he starts off unhappy, I don’t think it’s going to get much better, especially as he prepares for his first mid-terms. Don’t pressure him into making a decision you want. He knows his wants and limits and will make a good decision for him.</p>
<p>Excellent post, UCLA!</p>
<p>Thank you busdriver11 and UCLA77 for your excellent comments. We are going to give both schools a visit in 2 weeks and hope that this will give our son a feeling of which suits him best and where he can see himself for the next 4 years. We have encouraged him to draw up a list of pros and cons for each school, looking carefully at which factors are more important to him. I guess as parents we can only guide and nudge him in one direction but ultimately the decision will be his to make. Thanks once again for your time.</p>
<p>Well, duh. Sorry, but he should definitely go to Berkeley. The Haas School has an outstanding reputation, both undergrad and MBA. I got my MBA there, so I’m somewhat biased but really, there is just no comparison. I also know from firsthand experience what excellent faculty and great classes and exceptional students they have at Berkeley. Great job placement, too, which cannot be underestimated in this economy. That said, my D chose last year to go to UCLA over Berkeley and USC Marshall school. However, she decided to major in Econ as an undergrad and then pursue an MBA after getting a few years of work experience.</p>
<p>It ALL depends on you. SLO will give you a practical experience; UCB a more theoretical. Both are fabulous choices but if you were my kid and you asked me I would steer you towards CPSLO. I think they overall provide a wonderful and higher quality UG experience. My disclaimer is that 2 of 3 of my own children learn best by doing and “learn by doing” is the operative philosophy of Cal Poly.</p>
<p>OK, as someone who went through the process at Cal 25+ years ago, here are my thoughts on how he might want to approach the Cal decision…</p>
<p>1) Some background, I was admitted to Cal under some “special circumstances”, let’s say and the admissions person who handled my file (initially denied, but later accepted) was blunt and told me that I’d never make it. Back in the day, about 2/3 of the applicants were denied admission at the Jr. year. CS was the only more competitive major for Jr. admits (engineering being a frosh admit process). </p>
<p>2) I was a slacker in HS in school and found more interest in my EC’s as I found the grind of HS rather meaningless. Decided that the challenge of the Business School admissions was worth the effort. Figured out what was necessary to get the “A” in enough of the various pre-reqs and did it. Had no problem making it on the first attempt (you were allowed to apply in 2 terms). Most importantly, I didn’t allow the sideshow of life at Berkeley to get in the way.</p>
<p>3) Found that once in the Business School, it was overrated. Hope it is better now. TA’s in Accounting who could barely speak English, adjunct in Marketing class who managed to give 85% of the class D’s and F’s as final grades until a few of the students successfully had their work reviewed by the department and the department decided to recurve all the grades, and worst of all, back in my day the placement office was a joke. This was back in the big recession of the 80’s - very similiar to today in terms of the unemployment rate. Not enough quality jobs to apply for - especially in specialty fields (operations management, etc.). No real connections to be made to prospective employers. I ended up getting employment in IT a couple months after graduation purely on my own. Never used the degree.</p>
<p>That being said, looking back at the experience, I learned far more outside the classroom than inside. I think that it is looking at how the participants always seek to structure the ever renewing chaos that is life in Berkeley taught me more about management and organizational behavior than any classroom theory or formal internship could have. I didn’t come there looking for it, but it found me.</p>
<p>Bottom, line is the book experience and credential from Berkeley gets you an interview, but it is what you learn outside the classroom about life and how the world works that will make a Berkeley education worth the experience.</p>
<p>Best of luck.</p>
<p>ETA: bigmomma I didn’t initially realize that you were posting re your kid. I think he is right about the pressure cooker being more intense @UCB. If he is uncomfortable with that you should listen to him. CPSLO is no slouch in the prestige dept and its grads are recruited too. </p>
<p>I think a kid needs to make this decision and parents should zip it unless money is the key factor in the process.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>There is nothing worse for an incoming freshman than an academic program that he finds too intense, and a social environment that he finds difficult, or with which he’s uncomfortable.</p>
<p>The academic enviroment at Cal Poly can be intense as well. At least it was 30 years ago for some majors.</p>
<p>I visited Cal Poly SLO last week and I definitely think that the visit convinced me to truly consider the school. I’m currently choosing between Irvine (BIM major + CHP), Berkeley (pre-biz), and CPSLO (biz admin.). The tour guide I had, Jenna Salah, was really good and she’s a business admin major - try to get her if you can! She really loves the school and you can ask her all the questions you want about business. I love Cal Poly SLO’s “learn by doing” philosophy and the school has many clubs to become involved in business. You get the upside down curriculum and the big 4 recruit there as well. They even have speakers that come down and talk at the club events, which I found impressive since SLO is kind of in the middle of nowhere. I know it seems uncanny to pass up Berkeley (I, myself, am already having difficulty of passing up NYU and UCLA and the way I am right now, Berkeley might be passed up too), but my visits to both Cal Poly SLO has really opened up my eyes. Plus, it’s not as competitive and more relaxed.</p>
<p>That’s just what I think and I think whatever decision your son makes will be good. Cal Poly SLO is often underrated and it is a great school. I didn’t consider going there until my visit and I was really impressed! Feel free to PM me if you want to know more.</p>
<p>Spoke to a mom whose D is a frosh @ UCB today and thought of this thread. I know it is anecdotal but this mom asked if my girls were doing things for fun at their college. I said that they were and she wistfully commented that her D is consumed by her studies. She loves her academics, but mom says she feel guilty doing anything else. The mom commented directly on the amount of pressure her D feels.</p>
<p>Take this with a grain of salt. My girls are not at Cal Poly so the story is not intended to be an example of how one is more pressure than the other but I just wanted to share this and tell the OP that I was thinking of her, her son and his choice this afternoon.</p>
<p>You are very kind, historymom. It is amazing how thoughtful people on cc can be.</p>
<p>busdriver you just made my day! Thank you for YOUR kindness.</p>
<p>Historymom
That is a very thoughtful post of yours. Thought you might like to know we took in Cal Poly, Berkeley and UC Santa Barbara this weekend. I was hopfully that our S would have made his decision but he is just as uncertain, especially when the UCB speaker started quoting the impressive grades and qualifications of the students who have accepted their places. It was pretty intimidating! UCSB Economics is looking a good choice too. Guess my son has a lot of thinking to do over the next week! Thanks everyone for your comments.</p>
<p>I think the schools have very different personalities and strengths. I bet once you visit, your son will know which is right for him. he just needs to understand how they are different and spending time on campus will really highlight those differences for him.</p>
<p>I am a cal poly SLO graduate, both my parents and my husband are UCB graduates. I can speak to both becuase I spent a lot of time at both due to dating my husband while I was at Cal Poly and he was at UCB. </p>
<p>I think Cal Poly has a unique student body that is made up of intelligent fun loving kids. They are outgoing yet smart and studious and very well rounded. I thought there was a nice balance between the academics and the social side–we worked hard at both. People at Cal Poly are very happy. And the learn by doing philosophy is stressed in every major.</p>
<p>I too want to stress the value of learn by doing. I majored in biochemistry, not business, but I was hired over 2 masters students from other schools because I had hands on lab experience with the equipment for a research lab. This learn by doing approach was really key for me. I would not have retained knowledge nor would I have applied it as well with out the hands on approach. I also love the fact that you are taught by professors and not TAs and that many of the intro classes are smaller than what you will find at Berkeley. There are lots of fun traditions too such as helping out on a Rose Parade float, Poly Royal, orientation, etc.</p>
<p>And, I will say that Cal Poly also has a good reputation that reaches well beyond California. If you like collaborative learning and hands on learning, Cal Poly is a great choice.</p>
<p>Berekely is an amazing school with a great reputation in many areas as well. My husband fit in well there becuase he is a great independent learner. It was a bit more competitive too in that sometimes the grad students that he worked with were competing with him for opportunities so it was a lot less collaborative vs. Cal Poly. I also think that the general intellectual capacity is higher there but that often means less well rounded individuals, yet very fascinating people. You have some unbelievably freakishly smart people there. And, you have a number of nobel prize winning professors–but those are mainly in the sciences. So you will have a lot of intellectual stimulation but you will have to work a lot harder to find a social life. </p>
<p>The social life at Berkely is different than the one at Cal Poly too. At UCB it was more intellectual–people went out more to concerts, plays, played bridge or chess, went into San Francisco, and discussed politics, and there were definitely nerds who hung out and studied. My husbands room mate spent Friday nights playing his French Horn! But the football games are great fun especially when Cal has a good team (which is not as often as most would like). I had several girlfriends who went there too and got a great education but did not seem to love it like I loved Cal Poly. I would say my husband got a great return on his investment of time and money but he has zero desire to go back there.</p>
<p>I think your son needs to decide what learning style best fits him. I think both are great launch pads for success but you have to find the right fit.</p>
<p>And one last thing, SLO is a wonderful college town. If I could get a job there, I would as I’d love to live there again. I totally enjoyed my time at SLO. UCB is in a wonderful location so close to San Francisco and Oakland and the hills.</p>
<p>How bout some more anecdotal information to add to this thread: I have two cousins; one went to Berkeley and one went to Cal Poly SLO…both failed out. I love Berkeley and would go back in a heartbeat.</p>
<p>Your son can’t go wrong. Let him make the decision he’s most comfortable with. I would definitely choose Berkeley because I think it offers more opportunities than Cal Poly, but both are fantastic schools.</p>
<p>Congrads to your son for having two outstanding college options. Being an older model Cal Poly grad from 1980 and having a great friend that was just admitted into the Business School - he told me that Kinko’s has just gifted 15M to the Business School. As I told my young friend SLO town is truly a college town and my four years there remain as favorites in every respect; the school, people I’ve made lasting friendships with, job networking, etc. Best of luck to him wherever he decided.</p>