<p>I've been reading about how crowded some of the UCs (Davis, Cal, SC) are this year because of much higher than expected freshman yields. It strains everything: dorm room doubles turning into triples, bathrooms accomodating 10 instead of half a dozen kids, advisors' time, lab space, etc. The article sited a 700+ capacity Cal intro chem classes with a waiting list for waiting list. Crowding has been increasing over the last decade, but it sounds like some of the campuses were taken by surprise this year by an especially large jump in enrollment.</p>
<p>So, as a parent of someone applying for 2007 admission to mostly first tier UCs, I gotta wonder:
1. Are they still a good value? Probably so, but less so. Housing, class registration etc will be more of a headache.
2. Since we're in the middle of guessing my son's chances based on each campus' history, will next year be harder? Will they accept fewer students this go around because they are so impacted in general? Ugh.</p>
<p>i agree that we're kinda packed this year because of unexpected high yield. it would mean that we will accept less students next year.
housing is not too bad since all freshman and sophomores and guaranteed housing. (you may not get your first choice but you still have somewhere to live)
class registration is definitely hassle. i've seen people taking classes they really don't want to because they have to satisfy certain requirements and their preferred classes are full. (this includes me :()
as for the 700+ chem class, don't worry too much because it's just an intro class. it's just something you have to accept when you attend a public school, especially a large one like cal. upper division classes (your major related ones, the ones that really count) are usually no larger than 30.</p>
<p>Glad to hear you're okay with the housing situation. And yeah, 700+ intro classes are expected, but what surprised me was that the chem class mentioned in the paper had 720 enrolled students PLUS another 150 came to the class hoping to get in. The waiting list was full, so some asked to be put on a waiting list for the waiting list, if such a thing exists. Like many things, the press picks extreme examples to make a point and I'm sure supply/demand isn't so out of whack for every class. But with so many more freshman coming in, it's gotta be more common now.</p>
<p>No mention in the article about how this may or may not changes admissions. That'll probably come out in the spring, long after 2011'ers have to finalize their application lists.</p>
<p>Wait, what? Large classes are a public school only phenomenon? I know Harvard has an 800 person psychology class that is quite popular. I remember reading Cornell's intro chem class had something like 400 students in it. My friend at Stanford was in a 300 person film class. Dr. Zimbardo's intro psych class at Stanford has even more students when it's offered (as he's so popular). The truth of the matter is many schools (be they public or private) have some large classes. Even at many liberal arts colleges, a student still has a decent chance of taking a course with over 100 students in it. I think at the top 25 public schools as opposed to the top 25 private schools you'll see somewhat more large class and they will be a bit larger (given the same course of study). Things fluctuate a lot depending on course of study and particular school in question, though. Going to most private schools might limit the number of larger classes (and how large those larger classes are), but by how much this happens varies, and it will generally by no means eliminate them. This is also true of what is described here:
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i've seen people taking classes they really don't want to because they have to satisfy certain requirements and their preferred classes are full. (this includes me
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Do private schools not have requirements that must be fulfilled, and some classes full? For instane, do you think everyone at Stanford gets his or her first choice IHUM class? Do you think that everyone at schools with required first year seminars gets into their first choice seminars? My friend at a small elite liberal arts college gets about half the classes she really wants, her first-choice, and the other half she kinda wants, her second-choice. I think here and at her school, there are some students who get lucky and happen to get into all of their first choice classes, but many (perhaps most) students have to take a second choice class or two in their schedules. Often times, being persistent will eventually get you into a class.</p>
<p>
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2. Since we're in the middle of guessing my son's chances based on each campus' history, will next year be harder? Will they accept fewer students this go around because they are so impacted in general? Ugh.
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</p>
<p>When was the last year getting in became easier than it was the last year? I think this hasn't changed too much since sometime after WWII, but I could be wrong. At the very least, the trend has been top schools have been harder to get into year at year for at least the past 15 or so years, and I don't think next year will be an exception. C'est la vie. Berkeley will likely receive significantly more applications and have only a bit more spots than this past year. You should expect to see more applications at almost all of the UCs.</p>
<p>I don't see any 700 people intro chem courses in this semester catalogue. There's one with 630 people, although it currently has space (15 spots in it which may not have been available a few weeks ago). I'd like to see the article you read and what it says. Could you post a link? I think that Davis really had an unexpected yield, many hundreds of students more than expected, but from what I can tell Cal's yield was around what they expected.</p>
<p>It was from MediaNews and called "UC learning to handle the boom in freshman enrollment: University system is thinking of creative ways to accommodate a surge in the student population" I read it in Contra Costa Times. Hope this link works for you--</p>
<p>I don't think UC Berkeley overadmitted this year. I think about the same number of students chose to come as Berkeley expected. Now, schools like UC Davis and UCSD are another story. I believe UC Davis overadmitted by something like 900? Meaning more students chose to attend UC Davis than UC Davis expected them to.</p>
<p>Anyway, the UCs have had a slow but steady growing population of students for a long time, so last year was nothing new. I would say it's about as a good value as it was the year before, or the year before that. Waitlists are nothing new. While large classes and waitlists exist at other elite private universities such as Harvard and Stanford, they are a little more common here. Still, most people who were on waitlists ultimately got in, from my experience. Housing isn't that bad but it could be better. It really depends. Would I choose Harvard over Berkeley? Probably. Would I choose a private university like say...Purdue over Berkeley? No. So despite some of its problems (which as DRab pointed out, other universities also share to some extent) it's still a better school than the vast majority of other schools out there.</p>
<p>Hiker, as a parent of a Berkeley student, we are very pleased with the value of the education. Your concerns are valid and depending on your child, the UC system may or may not be a good fit.
1) Housing; guaranteed housing for the first year. It may or may not be crowded. However, there seems to be no lack of "affordable" (read similarly priced alternatives) apartments etc..in subsequent years located close to campus. For the first year, Clark Kerr is a little farther from campus but the rooms are spacious.
2) Class size; This is where you have to judge what kind of temperment your child has. He/She will receive excellent instruction from teachers and GSI's. If your child has the personality to "shrink the campus" and meet the professor during office hours, then their experiance will be enhanced 10 fold. If your child is eaily intimidated or infuenced by others(follows the crowd) and does not spend the effort to get to know the teacher in a class of 400+ then they will miss out. This takes effort and determination but pays big rewards.
3) Class registration; I think there is a big difference here. UC's are better when your child is clear on their chosen path. Making a change in their major is more difficult. At Stanford, of instance, you do not choose your major until your sophomore year. This gives underclassmen a chance to sample and reflect. And class registration is completely different and MUCH easier. </p>
<p>The UC's are the best value for the dollar provided it matches your childs temperment and chosen major.</p>
<p>
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1) Housing; guaranteed housing for the first year.
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</p>
<p>It's 2 years, now, for those admitted for Fall 2005 and after. :)</p>
<p>
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UC's are better when your child is clear on their chosen path. Making a change in their major is more difficult. At Stanford, of instance, you do not choose your major until your sophomore year.
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</p>
<p>For the college of Letters and Sciences (which holds about 3/4 of the students and most of the majors available), the following applies:</p>
<p>
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When must I declare a major?</p>
<p>You must declare a major by the end of your sophomore year (i.e., 60 units completed, less any AP credit), or the College may block your registration. If you transferred into Berkeley as a junior, you must declare a major by the start of your second semester, or the College may block your registration.
<p>All good responses with plenty of food for thought. I know our ultimate "value" decision will partially depend on how much financial aid the 2-3 private schools my son is applying to may offer.</p>
<p>Oh, and I forgot to reply he will study engineering, probably mechanical. Courses are quite prescripted as I understand it, with specific courses you absolutely have to get in sequence.</p>
<p>My daughter is at an excellent LAC. We were surprised by her registration woes due inpart by the school's commitment to keeping class sizes very small. But there is so much flexibility in fulfilling distribution and major requirements that she's mostly been able to get into a suitable classes, even if not her first choice.</p>
<p>vicissitudes - purdue is not a private university
just to add some more info - courses in mech E are pretty much laid out for you. you can change the order of some classes but in terms of technical courses and technical electives (ME 101, E 191 and the like), you're somewhat restricted. they will give you a flowchart outlining which courses you should take and in which order during welcome week.
certain courses being under strict sequence rule isn't as bad as you may think it is. it just means that you have to know one material before going on to learn another, and for good reason.
and yes i agree that waitlist isn't that much of a problem since most people get in the class anyway (people drop and such). also keep in mind that the class size shrinks substantially once you start taking upper division courses</p>
<p>Oh snap you are right. I don't know why I always thought it's a private university. Bad example; I apologize. Replace it with another less-renown private university.</p>