UC Davis Protesters Pepper-Sprayed For Sitting Down

Parents Forum
61

<p>"Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people peaceably to assemble . . . "</p>

<p>Just sayin’</p>

62

<p>

</p>

<p>The incident that has gone viral may have been people “peaceably assembling” but if you watch other videos you’d see that it wasn’t all peaceful. There is more to this than just that 90 seconds of footage that video shows…</p>

63

<p>

I heard this was about some police pepper spraying people, not about Congress passing any unconsittutional legislation.</p>

<p>Incidents like this are why we have administrative procedures and courts.</p>

64

<p>bovertine, the First Amendment, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, preserves the right of the people “peaceably to assemble,” and prohibits government action, including police action, that would interfere with that right. Strict construction of the First Amendment is, I believe, over. Legal scholars can provide some historical background on this. I don’t think what I am writing here is controversial, in Constitutional law.</p>

65

<p>“Xiggi, I especially expected a more intelligent and reasoned response from you. One doesn’t have to support the Occupy movement - or any movement- to see wrongful actions by police that violate basic civil liberties.”</p>

<p>Feel free to disagree with the body of my posts, but if you decide to question the intelligence and reasoning of my message, please have the courtesy to actually address what I expressed in its entirety and not what you thought I did. </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

66

<p>

</p>

<p>First, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Your post merely states a known provision of the Constitution. Whether these particular police officers violated any law is for a court to decide, not a bunch of people posting on the internet. Hence the final line in my post. That court thing is also referenced in the Constitution by the way. </p>

<p>People can peaceably assemble, but I cannot imagine you are implying there are no limits to what a group of people can do, how they can assemble or even where they can assemble. If they were assembled on your front lawn harrassing your children I suspect you might call the authorities yourself.</p>

67

<p>Well, I am not a Constitutional scholar by any means. Maybe someone with background in Constitutional law can weigh in.</p>

<p>For example, are people restricted from assembling on public property?</p>

68

<p>I don’t really know myself QM, but my point is really that this does not appear to be the result of campus policy but of a rogue cop or group of cops and that will be determined in future proceedings.</p>

69

<p>Look, there isn’t a whole heckuva lot going on in Davis - my first reaction was how funny to have an “occupy UC Davis” event at all. Yes - I have been to Davis.</p>

<p>As for the pepper spraying, I think the local NorCal tv news media sensationalized their reports - anything for drama as is typical nowadays - and we don’t know what happened prior – I would guess the police informed the “protesters” they were blocking needed access to a public facility and they were told to move repeatedly and then told they WOULD be removed.
While I prefer the least harsh tactics on the part of the police, I am not an expert on police practices and can’t evaluate the appropriateness of the pepper spraying – it sounds like it MAY have been time for some action so the university and police could go on about their business.</p>

<p>We CA taxpayers are paying a bundle for rather useless “occupying” events in this state. I have nothing against students at CA state university campuses or UC campuses holding speeches, rallies, marches – “occupying” becomes a public hazard and costly nuisance, IMO.</p>

70

<p>I’m a lawyer, but you don’t need to be a constitutional law expert to know that people can protest peacefully, as in sitting down and chanting, until there is a court order saying otherwise, for public safety reasons, which can only set limits on how this can be done; it cannot prohibit it, which is why the Westboro Baptist Church is allowed to behave as atrociously as it has. This is as fundamental to a democratic republic as a free press. If the Arab Spring has not proven this, American’s own history has.</p>

71

<p>If one was just to look at the action of the police, it could appear overly heavy handed. But the fact is, no action is done in a vacuum. If you remember the frenzy that took over at some of the state colleges in California when they raised the tuition rates, you might understand why they’d want to prevent that. If you watch what is going on with the OWS protests turning into drug infested, crime ridden homeless shelters, you’d understand why they would want to stop that immediately. If you look at the crackpots that are now occupying the Seattle Central CC, you’d understand why they don’t want to let anything even start.</p>

<p>Sometimes police do things we disagree with, and it’s great that nowadays we can videotape things and press for answers and investigations if it’s warranted. But I understand completely why they don’t even want the first hint of the idiocy that is the OWS in other cities.</p>

72

<p>Yes lateparty, a protest may cost taxpayer money but that doesn’t mean it should not happen. It is an american right to protest and it has been and remains a major tool to create social change… I have planned many a rally and protest in a past job as an organizer charged with an agenda for social change. Usually the police protect the protesters, not the other way around. As a courtesy we always notified the local police dept and they put up police do not cross barricades. The midwest academy provides a handbook for how this is done.
The UC Davis police were out of line, that is unless they felt threatened. It does not matter if you think the protesters are crackpots.</p>

73

<p>Real democratic revolution isnt tidy. It is organic, dynamic and full of.glitches. </p>

<p>It isn’t middle aged, flag clad high income couples driving to DC in their explorers to a corporate sponsored Fox news facilitated “protest.” It isn’t sitting in your lawn chairs from Walmart and complaining that rich people are taxed too heavily.</p>

<p>Of course, this is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree which I am sure many will.</p>

<p>But I Especially abhor watching college students sitting down, posing no direct threat and getting pepper sprayed.</p>

74

<p>Hey, let’s please distinguish between a 3-hour rally, for example, to protest a proposed rise in student tuition rates and “occupying” - which often means squatting, camping for days without sanitation and creating an unsafe environment for the general public, preventing entry/egress of others going about their business (or schoolwork) in a public setting.</p>

75

<p>Busdriver, the Davis students had already taken down the tents. They were just sitting there with arms linked. </p>

<p>hops_scout, you crack me up:

Here are two photos of the threatening, dangerous crowd:
<a href=“http://i.imgur.com/J3AE5.jpg[/url]”>http://i.imgur.com/J3AE5.jpg&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://davisenterprise.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/OccupyUCD4.jpg[/url]”>http://davisenterprise.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/OccupyUCD4.jpg&lt;/a&gt;
(I think links to photos are allowed, but if not, those are pictures of a lot of people standing there holding up cameras and cellphones. )</p>

<p>And here is what the dangerous, threatening crowd was shouting: “Shame on you! Shame on you!” (Strikes fear into my heart.) </p>

<p>If the police thought those nonviolent protestors were a dangerous threat, the police need a lot more training.</p>

76

<p>ya think the police may need a bit more training…thankyou captain obvious.</p>

77

<p>Investigation ongoing…</p>

<p>[Officers</a> in pepper spray incident placed on leave - US news - Life - msnbc.com](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45374977/ns/us_news-life/]Officers”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45374977/ns/us_news-life/)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>UC-Davis protests are connected to Occupy protests…

</p>

78

<p>breaking news: task force being formed to investigate the incident - two police placed on admin leave. Current UCDavis chancellor (I don’t know the current person) SOUNDS rather clueless on the radio.
I think the cellphone video shows what people who do the filming want it to show.
I heard on local news (NOT the national news, which is giving the briefest, most dramatic seconds-long reports) that the police had warned the students 4 times they needed to leave and they sat there and locked arms. At that point, the police were going to drag the students off and one decided to use the pepper spray. Maybe that’s right, maybe that’s wrong in this context.
I ask - does anyone know what constitutes correct procedures/protocol in such a situation? - I don’t know, but I DO know the students/other members of the public were being childish.
I remain steadfast there are other more intelligent and appropriate ways to protest or have free speech besides blocking others’ access to public buildings for hours or days and camping in public spaces others have the right to access, too. The “occupy” Oakland scene has been awful and local news media discovered a large percentage of arrested persons were from out of area, not Oakland locals protesting against Oakland – yet the city and citizens of Oakland pay a huge price, which they can ill afford.</p>

79

<p>lateparty, it appears you and I cross-posted. It seems there are law enforcement officials who say this was within proper procedures. They have placed the officers on administrative leave during the investigation…</p>

80

<p>Protocol from a protesters point of view is to let the police carry them out without fighting to be arrested. I would guess that the other side knows this as well.</p>