<p>Iam a california resident. I heard that UCS are increasing their tuition this year by another 30%. Is it wise to apply for Ucs or apply private too(economic factors)</p>
<p>It is wise to apply to financial safeties that you know you can afford. Financial safeties vary applicant-to-applicant based on university policies (need-blind or need-aware, meets need or gaps, offers merit aid or only need-based aid…) and student information (qualifying for merit aid, qualifying for need-based aid, having special talents a school wants…). Applying to both public universities (CSU and UC) and privates that have offered scholarships/aid to students with your profile would be a good idea.</p>
<p>Yes, the UCs are raising fees. Systemwide fees (“tuition”) will rise to just over $11,000/year starting next year (the first increase to approx. $10,300 takes effect this year). Califonia private universiy tuition varies, but many with names you would recognize range from $30,000 - $40,000/year. In the absense of finiancial aid and based only on “economic factors,” the UC would be the less expensive option. Applying strategically to private schools that would love to have you would offer other options at possibly a lower cost.</p>
<p>[UC</a> expected to raise student fees 32% – latimes.com](<a href=“http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ucfees19-2009nov19,0,6237361.story]UC”>UC ready to raise student fees by 32%)</p>
<p>Even with a 30% increase in its cost for In-State Tuition & Fees, the UCs are still cheaper to in-line with other publics ranked in the USNWR Top 75. Here is how they compare:</p>
<p>IS T&F , School</p>
<p>$14,416 , PENN STATE
$14,154 , U PITTSBURGH
$12,173 , UC DAVIS with a 30% price increase for IS students
$11,935 , MICHIGAN ST
$11,886 , RUTGERS
$11,771 , UC SANTA BARBARA with a 30% price increase for IS students
$11,738 , U MICHIGAN
$11,614 , U ILLINOIS
$11,557 , UC SANTA CRUZ with a 30% price increase for IS students
$11,542 , U MINNESOTA
$10,857 , UC BERKELEY with a 30% price increase for IS students
$10,800 , WILLIAM & MARY
$10,688 , CLEMSON
$10,696 , UCLA with a 30% price increase for IS students
$11,437 UC SAN DIEGO with a 30% price increase for IS students
$11,408 UC IRVINE with a 30% price increase for IS students
$9,886 , U CONNECTICUT
$9,870 , U VIRGINIA
$9,486 , U DELAWARE
$9,364 , UC DAVIS
$9,055 , UC S BARBARA
$8,930 , U TEXAS
$8,890 , UC S CRUZ
$8,798 , UC SAN DIEGO
$8,775 , UC IRVINE
$8,735 , VIRGINIA TECH
$8,706 , OHIO STATE
$8,638 , PURDUE
$8,613 , INDIANA U
$8,352 , UC BERKELEY
$8,336 , TEXAS A&M
$8,228 , UCLA
$8,053 , U MARYLAND
$8,020 , U WISCONSIN
$7,692 , U WASHINGTON
$7,506 , GEORGIA TECH
$6,824 , U IOWA
$6,030 , U GEORGIA
$5,396 , U N CAROLINA
$4,373 , U FLORIDA</p>
<p>As for OOS Tuition & Fees, the UCs don’t take many students and this is not presently that meaningful a revenue source. However, should part of the future financial strategy be to increase the numbers of OOS students, the UCs already price their product at a premium and it is doubtful if they can materially increase rates from their current levels. Here are the OOS Tuition & Fees numbers for those publics ranked in the USNWR Top 75:</p>
<p>OOS T&F , School</p>
<p>$34,230 , U MICHIGAN
$31,870 , U VIRGINIA
$31,559 , UC S CRUZ
$31,385 , UC DAVIS
$30,819 , UC SAN DIEGO
$30,724 , UC S BARBARA
$30,600 , U TEXAS
$30,592 , WILLIAM & MARY
$30,022 , UC BERKELEY
$29,897 , UCLA
$28,796 , UC IRVINE
$28,270 , MICHIGAN ST
$26,160 , INDIANA U
$25,946 , PENN STATE
$25,756 , U ILLINOIS
$25,716 , GEORGIA TECH
$25,486 , U CONNECTICUT
$25,118 , PURDUE
$24,998 , CLEMSON
$24,367 , U WASHINGTON
$23,990 , U MARYLAND
$23,852 , U PITTSBURGH
$23,744 , U FLORIDA
$23,186 , U DELAWARE
$22,886 , TEXAS A&M
$22,518 , RUTGERS
$22,342 , U GEORGIA
$22,294 , U N CAROLINA
$22,278 , OHIO STATE
$22,270 , U WISCONSIN
$22,198 , U IOWA
$21,488 , VIRGINIA TECH
$15,542 , U MINNESOTA</p>
<p>“Is it wise to apply for Ucs or apply private too(economic factors)”</p>
<p>Based on reputation and quality of instruction alone, yes, it’s wise to go to a top UC school. I would even go far and say that a UC Berkeley degree should cost as much as a top private school. The $11k annual tuition of Berkeley is a total bargain for a Berkeley education.</p>
<p>*Iam a california resident. I heard that UCS are increasing their tuition this year by another 30%. Is it wise to apply for Ucs or apply private too(economic factors) *</p>
<p>It can depend on a few factors…</p>
<p>What are your stats?</p>
<p>How much can your family afford to spend on your education?</p>
<p>What is your family’s Expected Family Contribution (EFC)? If you don’t know, use this to get an idea… [FinAid</a> | Calculators | Expected Family Contribution (EFC) and Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org/calculators/finaidestimate.phtml]FinAid”>http://www.finaid.org/calculators/finaidestimate.phtml)</p>
<p>If economics is a concern, then a private may still cost more money if their COA is the typical $40k-55k per year.</p>
<p>The Cost of Attendance (COA) at a UC as an instate student will still likely remain below $30k per year. However, the COA at a private can be around $40k -55k+ per year. So unless the private school gives you a scholarship or something to reduce their cost, the UC is still going to be a lot cheaper.</p>
<p>RML,
I want to quickly grab this opportunity to agree with you (I know…it’s a rare thing. 
)</p>
<p>For a California resident, I agree that the UCs and especially UCB, UCLA and even UCSD remain a bargain even after a 30% increase. </p>
<p>For an OOS student, however, the value argument vs the top privates is a lot less compelling. Factors such as class sizes and access to faculty and financial aid and large graduation rate differentials and overall institutional support for undergrads today and in the future all erode the attractiveness of the product for a prospective OOS student.</p>
<p>*For a California resident, I agree that the UCs and especially UCB, UCLA and even UCSD remain a bargain even after a 30% increase. *</p>
<p>Top top and mid-tier UCs are all a bargain compared to many/most privates unless some fab scholarship is given by the privates.</p>
<p>As for OOS students…the UCs aren’t often a bargain.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’d like to see the breakdown of the statistical data for graduation rate. I’d like to see if the low grad rate also holds true to OOS and international students. because based on anecdotes, those OOS and international students have over 95% 4-yr grad rate, and a near perfect 6-yr grad rate.</p>
<p>^^Concur that graduation rates is a bogus stat. The UCs are extremely generous with AP/IB credit, so graduating early is rather easy for anyone who wants to. But, I also agree that, with the exception of a few specialized programs/majors, the UCs are a lousy value at OOS rates. A private just offers lots of everything else for the collegiate experience for the same, or even lower price (privates can have better finaid and merit money). For many/most? of the kids accepted to Cal, the Ivies & Stanford et al would be less out-of-pocket.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Bluebayou, you can expect quite a few challenges to your absolutely correct statement! It so happens that for a great number of students who attend Cal and UCLA with Pell grants, the option of private schools with generous scholarships SHOULD and DOES represent a better value. </p>
<p>However, one of the basic requirements is to … being admitted in the first place. The great number of Pell grantees at Cal and UCLA simply confirms that the student bodies between the UC and highly selective private are not exactly interchangeable, and that the students end up accepting the offer from the best school that accepted them … even it if costs them more on a net COA basis. And this is even truer at the lower ranked UC schools.</p>
<p>RML,
To my knowledge, the UCs don’t break out graduation data by IS and OOS students. And as you fully know, anecdotal data ain’t very useful for making comparisons. </p>
<p>But it might help to take a look at the data below. There are significant graduation differences between what occurs in the UC world and what goes on in the world of USNWR Top 50 privates, particularly for the 4-year metric. Maybe you can explain the differences.</p>
<p>4 Yr Grad Rates , School</p>
<p>91% , Notre Dame
90% , Princeton
90% , Yale
90% , Georgetown
88% , Harvard
88% , U Penn
88% , Duke
88% , Boston College
87% , Columbia
87% , Cornell
86% , U Chicago
86% , Dartmouth
86% , Northwestern
86% , Tufts
86% , Brandeis
85% , Wash U
84% , Brown
84% , Vanderbilt
83% , Wake Forest
82% , MIT
82% , Emory
82% , Rice
81% , Caltech
81% , Johns Hopkins
79% , Stanford
77% , NYU
74% , U Rochester
72% , Lehigh
70% , Carnegie Mellon
65% , UCLA
64% , UC BERKELEY
64% , Rensselaer
64% , UC S BARBARA
58% , Case Western
57% , UC IRVINE
47% , UC DAVIS</p>
<p>6-Yr Grad Rates , School</p>
<p>98% , Harvard
97% , Yale
96% , Princeton
96% , Notre Dame
95% , U Penn
95% , Columbia
95% , Duke
95% , Dartmouth
94% , MIT
94% , Stanford
94% , Wash U
94% , Brown
93% , Northwestern
93% , Cornell
93% , Rice
93% , Georgetown
92% , U Chicago
92% , Tufts
91% , Johns Hopkins
91% , Boston College
90% , UC BERKELEY
90% , Brandeis
89% , Vanderbilt
89% , UCLA
88% , Caltech
88% , Emory
88% , Wake Forest
87% , Carnegie Mellon
87% , UC S BARBARA
85% , Lehigh
84% , NYU
84% , U Rochester
82% , Rensselaer
81% , Case Western
81% , UC DAVIS
81% , UC IRVINE</p>
<p>Keep in mind that the 32% UC fee increase is only the beginning. Who’s to say that there won’t be more tuition hikes in the near future? And why would we expect anything less?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am not RML, but let me try:</p>
<p>4 (or 6 or whatever) yr graduation rates are basically a function of socioeconomic homogeneity/diversity. The more financial hardships a student body faces, the less likely they are going to graduate on time.</p>
<p>Coupled with the fact that the UC’s have “impacted” majors which don’t always allow for class availability, it’s a wonder that some UC students graduate at all.</p>
<p>I agree that economics can play a part in this. Here are the numbers for % of students getting Financial Aid on these campuses:</p>
<p>% of students getting Fin’l Aid , School</p>
<p>71% , Case Western
69% , MIT
66% , Rensselaer
60% , Harvard
58% , Yale
58% , UC SAN DIEGO
57% , Princeton
57% , UC DAVIS
56% , U Rochester
54% , Brandeis
54% , UC S BARBARA
53% , NYU
52% , Carnegie Mellon
52% , UC IRVINE
50% , Stanford
49% , Caltech
49% , U Chicago
49% , Dartmouth
49% , UCLA
48% , Columbia
48% , Johns Hopkins
47% , Notre Dame
46% , UC BERKELEY
44% , Brown
43% , U Penn
43% , Lehigh
42% , Duke
42% , Vanderbilt
41% , Emory
40% , Northwestern
40% , Georgetown
40% , Tufts
39% , Cornell
39% , Boston College
38% , Wash U
35% , Rice
29% , Wake Forest</p>
<p>I think that the availability issue is real, especially in selected majors. And this is likely to worsen going forward as resources get tighter in the state.</p>
<p>Although it is easy to dismiss the importance of 4-year graduation rates, this issue tends to raise its ugly head when one starts factoring the true cost of staying longer in school (opportunity losses) and adding such pesky details as housing, especially at schools that do NOT even guarantee housing for the full four years. Does anyone look forward to having to find reasonable and safe housing at affordable rates in California for three to four years? </p>
<p>When dealing with real dollars, a bargain tend to turn quickly into a faustian one.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I cannot believe that the percentage of full-paying students is so high at these privates…</p>
<p>xiggi,</p>
<p>It is especially important with the UCs to consider the following:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Liberal AP credit acceptance at the UCs, which for the average UC student likely means 1 to 1.5 quarters (trimesters) of unit displacement = free tuition = 33.3% - 50% of a school year.</p></li>
<li><p>Liberal acceptance of Community College credits</p></li>
</ul>
<p>This is of course counterbalanced by two issues facing UCs and probably most public schools –</p>
<ul>
<li><p>difficulty in sequencing required courses in many majors = 1-2 quarters delay in graduating</p></li>
<li><p>Public schools have a large % of students who pay all or most of their way through school with part time to almost full time jobs. My father worked full time after returning from the Korean “War” while attending UCLA and then Cal State Long Beach to earn his degree and support his young family, with no parental support whatsoever. This of course means students often complete their degrees in a herky-jerky manner that doesn’t allow for high 4 year or sometimes even 6 year graduation rates.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>All that to say that there are both benefits and hinderances to graduating from a UC in 4 or 6 years, but to me the determining factor is that students are balancing school and work simultaneously.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The catch-22 is that those who can least afford not to graduate in time are the ones who are going to have the most trouble doing so (due to finances).</p>
<p>xiggi:</p>
<p>While not totally dismissive, I don’t think 4-year grad rate is applicable to rich, OOS students. Those that have the transcript to be accepted into Cal or UCLA can get out in four years. Sure, they may have to take a class on Friday at 8:00 am, but it is available. :D</p>
<p>Regardless of the 6 year rate, the mean time for graduation across all UCs is 4.2 years. Systemwide, ~60% graduate in 4 years. At Cal and UCLA, it’s close to 70%. That includes a bunch of kids who have to work full time to pay their bills, who were unprepared for admission, who have zero AP/IB credits, who speak English as a second-third language, URMs (who have a 70% six-year grad rate) etc. And, of course, don’t forget the UC focus on Pell Grantees, which is significantly higher (2-3-4 times) than other top schools.</p>
<p>Public schools have a large % of students who pay all or most of their way through school with part time to almost full time jobs.</p>
<p>This is very true. State schools often have many students whose parents were unprepared for college costs, therefore the students are taking less classes, so they can work more hours to pay for their schooling.</p>
<p>I don’t know how popular co-ops are in Calif, but in other states, that can also cause a delay in graduation.</p>