UCB/UCD for pre-med?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>Hi CC!
I'm a sophomore in high school, which most of you might think is a bit too young to think about med school. I just started volunteering at a local hospital (elder-care), and I'm loving it there. The staff, fellow volunteers, and residents are amazing. I've also joined a program which allows students at my school (mostly juniors and seniors, but a few sophomores were an exception) to be mentored by UCSF MSTP students to conduct research with professors. As a result, I've been taking my career path seriously. </p>

<p>Sophomore year has been a huge change for me. Not only have my work ethic and grades improved as I progressed through my sophomore year, but I've also considered medicine as a career. As for freshman year, I didn't even know what I wanted to do for my future. My parents wanted me to be a doctor, which I always took a bit too lightly. My grades were down the drain (2.7, anyone?); I didn't even join any clubs, let alone any ec's of my interest. But thank god my school doesn't rank its students! Hopefully, my freshman GPA will be looked as a upward trend, since this semester's GPA is a 3.86/4.0w. </p>

<p>Better informed, I now have a profound interest in medicine. I've looked through numerous threads on various websites, including CollegeConfidential, and med-student blogs. I'm not saying that I'll study for the MCAT asap, nor am I saying that I want to start padding my application for med school. I just want to look at my choices for college that will give me the most opportunities to excel as a pre-med, because my family (older cousins, mother, aunts) are already beating me down to choose a college. I'm looking for: opportunities for volunteering and shadowing, location (in-state preferred), competition, ability to socialize with professors, a good pre-med advising program, and overall difficulty to earn a good GPA.</p>

<p>I looked into both UC Davis and UC Berkeley, and I don't think I'll have trouble getting into either one, since my school is a feeder school to the UC's and Ivy's. I've heard that I should go to Berkeley if I know I'll do well, but I'm not looking forward to competition between pre-meds. I also heard that there aren't many opportunities for volunteering and researching. Even so, my family supports Berkeley over Davis because of prestige. But on the other hand, the more I read about Davis, the more I'm liking the school. I heard that their pre-med advising programs are superb, the professors are amazing, research is plentiful, and the student body is friendly. </p>

<p>Is there anyone that goes to either school that can explain their pre-med experiences?</p>

<p>*And also, I'm sorry that I'm asking these questions two years in advance! I'm just very curious. *</p>

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<p>waaaaay tooo early to even consider Cal. You will need real numbers (gpa+test scores) prior to even having this discussion.</p>

<p>But in general, Davis will be less competitive, i.e., “easier” to earn A’s. Cal has a lot of gunners.</p>

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<p>You’ll need a 3.0 UC GPA to even get considered for a UC. UCs have auto rejections for those with sub 3.0. You need to look at what your UC GPA is.</p>

<p>Do NOT think that your school is a feeder school to a top UC.</p>

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<p>@mom2collegekids
UC GPA disregards grades both freshman and senior year, correct? If so, my 2.7 GPA will not be factored in.
~40% of graduating students from my high school head off to a UC, most of which is to UCD and UCB.</p>

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<p>

I suspect that the competition between premeds is the norm rather than an exception everywhere, even including Davis. Since nobody goes to two schools at the same time, nobody knows how different the competition is when comparing two schools.</p>

<p>Let me borrow something posted by NCG many years ago on CC and re-posted it here because it is words of wisdom: “Before I go to Cornell, I expect a dogfight. And this is what I get when I get there!” There is really no easy way everywhere, even though naturally everyone wants to find the answer to this million dollar question: “Which way is somewhat easier?” (From his screen name, you could tell he was originally from northern California, where you are likely at now.)</p>

<p>I did hear many times on CC that the premed advising at UCB is not particularly good. I would say “you get what you pay for.” – even though I do think that if this is true, it is unfair to those who can only afford to go to a public university.</p>

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<p>A lot of these schools exist.</p>

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<p>^ Really? (I really do not know.) In Texas, no high school can be a feeder school to the flagship state school because of the top ten percents rule. Isn’t there a similar rule for California?</p>

<p>I thought California is more left-leaning (a blue state) than Texas (a red state). Maybe Californians are just wiser :)</p>

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<p>Here in GA, my D’s HS was the number 2 feeder school to UGA, they sent over 100 kids out of 680 to UGA. D used to say if she went to UGA, it would be like HS continuation, and she wasn’t drinking the coolaide.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your input, mcat2. :slight_smile: Yes, I know that there will be competition in almost every school, but I’d like to know which schools provide the most resources that will help my admission into a med school. But, in your opinion, do you think that going to a highly competitive school, like UCLA and Cal, is worth it? To what extent does med school view a grade-deflated school equal to a “regular” school? (i.e., MIT and UCI)
Also, my dad makes 25k (he made only 23k this year, due to the economy) a year that has to support a family of four. I wouldn’t want to stack up debts just to go to a private college when I can get a good education at a UC.</p>

<p>Like YeloPen said, many of these schools exist. I, myself, didn’t know that my school was a feeder school, nor did I know that my school doesn’t rank its students. What a relief! I seriously thought that my freshman year really screwed up my chances for a good college.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, what may be a “feeder” today, may not be in two+ years. The simple fact is that the UC Regents have decided to recruit OOS students who are full pay. And that means that fewer students from instate ‘feeder’ schools will be accepted.</p>

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<p>My point was that just because some/many kids from a particular high school end up at UCs doesn’t not mean…"I looked into both UC Davis and UC Berkeley, and I don’t think I’ll have trouble getting into either one, "</p>

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<p>OP, I could not answer your question about which school provides the most resources. After all, I live thousands miles from any schools you referred to.</p>

<p>Regarding your other question about going to a highly competitive or a slightly less competitive school, I just want to pass on a word of wisdom (in my opinion) from a long-time and frequent CC contributor, BDM.</p>

<p>He once posted that you should go to a school that is reasonably challenging for you but not being overwhelmed. Lacking of other criteria, he suggested the use of SAT (or PSAT) to gauge your chance of success at a particular school. (I personally would add your past GPA as a part of the criteria as well, as some students are good at GPA but not SAT.) I forgot the exact percentile he quoted, I guess he probably said you should go to a school where you are within the top 20-25 percents of your class (in terms of your SAT and GPA.) If your high school is highly competitive, you mat give your GPA some break. My child was from a competitive public high school, so I know what it is like in such an environment: A top 40% students from his high school may have a good chance to do well at the flagship public university in my state. (but only about 15-18% of his high school graduating class were able to attend that public university due to the stupid top 10 percents rule.)</p>

<p>BTW, I feel for your family’s financial situation due to the economic downturn (esp. in California.) Hopefully, it will not distract you too much for your college career and future career because of this. Be optimistic as the worst will be over eventually. Help yourself first otherwise you will not be able to help your family in the end.</p>

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<p>I think for top schools around the Bay Area, over a hundred students are accepted to Berkeley each year. This trend is more pronounced in the Bay Area, but even my high school in southern California has about 10% of its large graduating classes accepted.</p>

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<p>@mom2collegekids:
I’m sorry if I sounded a bit over-confident with that statement. :frowning: I just meant that both are my dream schools. I want to narrow it down to one based on people’s experiences with the school, not just its prestige, % that gets into med school, or school rank. Again, I should be asking these types of questions during my senior year, but I’m just a bored kid with nothing to do during her last few days of winter break.</p>

<p>@mcat2
Ah, I see; thanks! So, I use my GPA and SAT to see what percent I fall in with the stats from last year’s freshmen class, correct? Has this method worked for other people?</p>

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<p>Ahnette: I have four pieces of advice. The first three are not very important, but because you seem curious:</p>

<p>(1) I don’t think publics are usually good choices for aspiring premeds. Of the UC’s, I suspect Los Angeles might be the least bad.
(2) I do think you should be careful not to underestimate the financial aid at top-tier schools such as Ivies. If your father is earning only $25,000, I believe that Princeton would be absolutely free – including room and board. In fact I believe that’s true up until $60,000 or maybe even $100,000. Other “full-need” schools (most of the top schools) would be similar, but not quite free. And the UC’s are getting very, very expensive.
(3) Even if your school is a “feeder,” it can still be difficult to get into UCD and especially UCB. So be careful not to take this for granted.</p>

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<p>The fourth piece of advice is the important one.</p>

<p>(4)For now, whether you are a premed or not doesn’t really matter. Whether you’re a prelaw, pre-investment-banking, pre-engineer – none of that matters right now.</p>

<p>Because all of those people – future doctors, lawyers, engineers – they all need exactly the same things. They need high grades and they need high SAT scores and they need strong extracurriculars.</p>

<p>For now focus on those. Focus on being the absolute best high school student you can be. That’s how to be the best pre-pre-med.</p>

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<p>@bluedevilmike:
(1) Do you mind explaining this? Just curious. :)</p>

<p>(2) Ah, I guess that can be true. I haven’t actually paid attention to the Ivies yet, because it all seems a bit far-fetched to me. I want to go to my school’s college center, where they hold all the information of each student who graduated and their transcript and what college they got into, but it’d be a bit awkward, since mostly the seniors utilize that place.
To get a “full ride”, doesn’t your transcript need to extraordinary? Or do low-income students automatically apply for the full ride?</p>

<p>(3) I agree 100%.</p>

<p>(4) This just encouraged me to start off the first day of the second semester, which is tomorrow, strong. :)</p>

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<p>OP, In case you missed that: bluedevilmike is THE famous BDM I referred to above. I personally have learned a lot from him in the past. It’s worth paying close attention to what he has to say.</p>

<p>

I think I could answer this one. The way some of top colleges do for financial aides is based on student’s need. Especially for a few of the very top ones, this is really the case. The student needs to get in. After the student gets in, how much she pays depends on how much her family and she herself can afford. How much she or her family is asked to pay for the education and living expenses has nothing to do with her academic or other merit once she gets in.</p>

<p>The key is to get in. However, the school may evaluate a student based on his/her background. So the student needs to stand out among the students who have a similar background. The ethnic group could be a part of the factors because some ethnic group tends to be disadvantaged statistically speaking. Should you belong to one of these groups and stand out among your group, it is good enough. (This is still not easy though.) You do not need to compete against those who were “born with a silver foot in his mouth” (Sorry to tease someone a little bit just for the fun of it.)</p>

<p>DS actually benefits greatly because of this. (He is not an URM.) We are not poor by any stretch of imagination, especially compared to your family. But for his last two years in college, we almost did not pay any tuition (much cheaper than the tuition he needs to pay if he went to a public college); we just paid his living expenses, books, etc. Of course, the traveling expense is a big ticket item for us. But this could be a luxury item we choose to pay.</p>

<p>For a family with a even modest means, the family is not asked to even pay for the student’s living expenses. For this student, it is almost like the college pays him/her to study there, including room and board.</p>

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<p>With such a low income, your need will be met at a UC. You’ll get Blue and Gold, Cal Grant, Pell, and other aid. </p>

<p>The UCs do a lousy job meeting need for middle income folks, but they do a good job with low income students. </p>

<p>The UCs are more GPA and rank driven than test driven (so that students from underprivileged schools are not shut out). This can make it harder to predict acceptance based on test scores.</p>

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<p>Financial aid at top privates is driven purely by need, not merit. I don’t know much about the process. In the next couple of years, you should take a look at your application, see how it looks, and then inquire about financial aid at schools where you stand a good shot.</p>

<p>In general, the UCs have really abysmal rates of getting their students into medical school – very close to the national average. I suspect this is because large public schools just don’t have the resources to invest in things like advising, along with some other things.</p>

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<p>Two of my DDs attended a UC, I was unimpressed with their advising in general, I call it cookie cutter advice- here is a list that someone in the advising dept printed out, do this and only this. That can work, but there is more than one way to the end result.</p>

<p>That said, you can chart your own path, be that a private or a UC. Many of my Berkeley Dds friends are now in med school or grad school. I did not see that the Cal path was ‘worse’ than the mid tier path at all. Plus you do not need to be a molecular bio classic gunner premed major. Major in anything you want, do integrative bio if you still want bio, and get away from some of the traditional gunner kids.</p>

<p>You should apply to a couple of UCs, they will be a financial safety with your lower income, but be sure to apply based on your GPA & SAT, maybe UCD, UCR, etc. But also continue to search this board and look for some privates with good $.</p>