UChic v Northwestern

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hey,</p>

<p>What are the pros and cons of each school? I know both are excellent universities in illinois. I plan on visiting both this summer, but if you guys could give me some info that'd be great. Strengths and weakness in particular departments, campus (i've heard northwestern is beautiful), social scene, etc.</p>

<p>Oh, I've noticed UChic is a pretty high ranked school, but their acceptance rate is pretty high, and those who are accepted that actually attend Uchic make up a relatively low % compared to other schools of Uchic's caliber. Any reason to this? Maybe its high ranking doesn't mean that much, i dunno.</p>

<p>Finally, how do these schools compare to ivies and other top ranked universities generally?</p>

<p>Anyway, thanks</p>

2

<p>screw rankings. they mean nothing.
As for which school i think is better, i choose U of chicago. As for which i know is better, also U of chicago. I if you ever plan on majoring in economics, U of chicago has the best econ program in the world (grad and undergrad). People could debate otherwise, but most all knowledgeable people would agree. Also, Chicago has many other great programs as well as one of the most intellectual atmospheres of any op colleges in the US. That being said, it is supposedly very rigorous. Also, dont look at their acceptance rate because it has no significance.</p>

3

<p>those are some bold assertions. Northwestern wins in cross-admits against UChicago pretty routinely. I myself chose it over UChicago and I would do it again. I met a ton of kids at northwestern that got into chicago. The fact that it has grad professors that are famous means nothing about the education you get there.</p>

4

<p>northwestern is ranked #23 in revealed preference, uchicago #28:
<a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=601105%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=601105&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>northwestern also is recruited more heavily for business:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=235587&highlight=consulting+core%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=235587&highlight=consulting+core&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>on the contrary, uchicago has a slightly higher WSJ feeder ranking (uchicago 14, northwestern 21) to graduate degree programs (authenticity debatable because uchicago's graduate schools were used as factors in the study while northwestern's were not):
<a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>they're really very different, i think i would safely say that a student is generally either a uchicago type or a northwestern type</p>

<p>both schools fit somewhere academically in the middle of the ivy league (ie better than cornell, brown, worse than yale, princeton) as miniscule of a distinction as that is</p>

<p>the reason that uchicago's acceptance rate is so high is because it has a low yield and a relatively low amount of applicants. why does it have a low yield and low amounts of applicants? well you can either look at it as a "second choice school" or as a school that scares potential applicants away.</p>

<p>if you do some research you will see that uchicago has a very distinct reputation as far as academic/campus environment go</p>

<p>i think if you look into the background of each school you will get a feel pretty quickly for which school you would fit in better at</p>

5

<p>Both schools are excellent, Chicago has several more top departments. On the other hand, Northwestern has a much better social scene and is more vocational. Chicago is notorious for viciously tough grading and work, so perhaps that could be a reason for the lower perference ranking.</p>

<p>Chicago probably fits in a little above Cornell and Dartmouth, if you want to compare it to the Ivies academically. Northwestern is very similar, if marginally weaker. Northwestern probably has more prestige on the street and is more highly recruited in some areas, while Chicago has more prestige in the academic sector. Really what it comes down to is where you can see yourself. I think the majority of people would prefer the Northwestern experience to Chicago's, but for those who want an intellectual boot-camp, Chicago works.</p>

6

<p>While I personally would prefer Chicago, the two schools are very similar in caliber, and are both excellent.
I just thought I'd chime in on UChic acceptance rate. Many assert that this is largely due to self-selection. Chicago has a notoriously lengthy application, with several essays that likely cannot be recycled on other apps. Plus, as has been mentioned, it is known to be very academically rigorous, some even call it "the place where fun goes to die." While I believe that's untrue, it does turn off some candidates.
Of course, the self-selection theory, while surely partially true, would tend to imply that there would also be a high yield, which you have expressed is not the case. I do not know why that is.</p>

7

<p>I'm going to agree with everything said up to this point. Hooray, a civil discussion on two very different schools!</p>

<p>That said, I saw both NU and Chicago and I liked both. (I did, however, like Chicago more). The schools can be ROUGHLY broken down the following ways:</p>

<p>Pre-professional: NU
Academic: Chicago</p>

<p>Suburban: NU
Urban: Chicago</p>

<p>(note: NU is quite close to downtown Chicago, but anecdotally, Chicago kids use the city much more than NU kids. My Chicago friends and I go into the loop once or twice a week; my NU friends venture down once or twice every 10 weeks. That's because Hyde Park, UChicago's neighborhood, can be lacking at times, while Evanston is its own self-sufficient suburb)</p>

<p>Fraternity/Sorority: NU
Residential Colleges: Chicago</p>

<p>Well-rounded: NU
Quirky: Chicago</p>

<p>Large undergrad pop: NU
Smaller undergrad pop: Chicago</p>

<p>To translate the schools into Ivynese, without regards to superiority, I would say that NU is similar to Cornell and Harvard in terms of its size and well-roundedness, and that Chicago is similar to Columbia and Brown in terms of its urban location/core/intellectual atmosphere/love-or-hate reactions.</p>

<p>And in terms of Chicago's low yield: Chicago doesn't have a binding Early Decision plan, but rather an EA plan, allowing students who love the school to apply, get in, and then apply elsewhere. I've talked to many students who got into Chicago EA, and then tried their luck with other schools and found that the likes of Yale, Harvard, and Princeton had accepted them too, or that other high-quality schools like WashU, Case, Hopkins, etc. were dumping money on them. Chicago loses students on both ends-- those looking for a more prestigious institution and those looking for a less expensive school.</p>

<p>Hope this post helped. PM me for any Chicago-specific questions.</p>

8

<p>both are equal in terms of undergrad...just examine the different characteristics and go with your taste</p>

9

<p>Chicago attracts a certain type of student, thus the acceptance rate. The type? Very, very intellectual. I don't know how else to explain it.</p>

10

<p>The University of Chicago is an admissions bargain in that it offers very intelligent applicants (if not AS involved and impressive in other ways (and I speak as one of these kids)) a good shot at a truly excellent academic experience. Of the students from my HS going to either Northwestern or UChicago, the UChicago group is hands down more intellectual. This is NOT to say that the Northwestern kids aren't smart (they absolutely are) or aren't serious about being students. But the Northwestern kids are definitely the more popular, more involved, and more professionally oriented group. The UChicago group is quieter, more studious, and less impressively involved. True, this is a small sample size, but not so small as to be meaningless, in my opinion. </p>

<p>I am against making overly fine distinctions between the top 20 or so National Universities and the top 20 or so LACs as a group, but it is my opinion that UChicago is overall the academically superior school. Of course it teeters back and forth depending on what department you are looking towards--for those career-oriented students, Northwestern is probably the way to go, and this is not to say that Northwestern is more than a step or two behind UChicago--not at all. I would not distinguish between graduates from the two schools. The fact that Northwestern often wins cross-admits with UChicago is meaningless to me--Northwestern offers a more rah-rah, traditional college experience and there is no question in my mind that many students would prefer that.</p>

11

<p>Despite the VertigoFrog's assertion, Chicago does not have significantly "more top departments" than Northwestern. When one takes into account NU's pre-professional and performing arts programs, one finds that the two schools have about the same number of well-regarded depts/progs. (And to say that Northwestern is "marginally weaker" than Chicago--and that Chicago is stronger than Dartmouth and Cornell--is, well... you know.)</p>

<p>Chicago's very strong in the traditional disciplines, and in teaching future academics.</p>

<p>As for how both schools compare with the Ivies--in my opinion, they're both among the ten or so schools on par with them.</p>

12

<p>Chicago Pros:
-Top notch econ department
-Excellent grad school and job placement
-Urban campus (if you like that)</p>

<p>Chicago Cons:
-Thosands of nerds who get aroused by the thought of learning
-Poor name recognition (if you care)
-Awful social scene (where fun dies)</p>

<p>Northwestern Pros:
-Pretty sick in econ and journalism
-Nice suburban campus
-Good sports scene
-Big frat scene</p>

<p>Northwestern Cons:
-Evanston blows</p>

<p>As you can see, I would definitely suggest Northwestern. It's much more well rounded.</p>

13

<p>Yes, it's definitely splitting hairs. The big differences are absolutely in feel--like I said before, the kids going to Northwestern and the kids going to UChicago are very, very different. And if the two kids who I know are going there for performing arts are any indication, they must have a pretty great Fine Arts department.</p>

<p>Edit: I think your list is a little off, ncody :). My list would be like this: </p>

<p>Chicago pros:
Econ department
Grad School
Urban
Nerds</p>

<p>Chicago cons:
Social scene
(Name recognition...I don't particularly care, but those who need to know definitely do know about UChicago)</p>

<p>Northwestern Pros:
Journalism (never heard about the econ department...every econ department pales next to U of C's)
Suburban Campus (? Never been, but not everyone is enamored of the campus (same is true of U of C, though))</p>

<p>Northwestern Cons:
Sports
Frats
Evanston</p>

<p>Does this prove anything? No. People like me who are more U of C types (and I did not and would not apply there, btw) are not going to care about so called "well-rounded"ness--I don't need the well-roundedness that comes from frats and sports. Some do, and that's fine, but all these pros and cons do is tell you the different characteristics of each school--it's up to you to decide whether they fall in the pro or con category for you.</p>

14

<p>lol advantagious, i like how you casually put sports as a con</p>

15

<p>althought NU is in the big ten-- i wouldnt call them a "good sports" program but 2931021349 times better than chicago
'
id hate to go to chicago</p>

<p>western new england has better sports than chicago with GUy dalessio and mikey schulman</p>

16

<p>"on the contrary, uchicago has a slightly higher WSJ feeder ranking (uchicago 14, northwestern 21) to graduate degree programs (authenticity debatable because uchicago's graduate schools were used as factors in the study while northwestern's were not):
<a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/p...ege_092503.pdf"&gt;http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/p...ege_092503.pdf&lt;/a&gt;"&lt;/p>

<p>Come on elsijfdl, what do you mean by "slightly higher"? Let's do a simple math:</p>

<p>Feeder score for UChicago: 6.22%
Feeder score for Northwestern: 3.69%</p>

<p>% difference between the two: (6.22 - 3.69)/3.69 *100 = 68.6%</p>

<p>So, that's almost 70% better feeder score - not just "slightly higher".</p>

<p>You've mentioned a couple of times that no NU graduate school was included in WSJ survey. That's true. UChicago has its law school and business school included because they are the top 5 schools. But in NU's professional schools, only Kellogg is qualified to be included in top 5. However, just like NU sends lots of its undergrads to UChicago GSB, UChicago sends lot of its undergrads to Kellogg too. So, even with Kellogg included in WSJ feeder school survey, we won't see a big difference.</p>

<p>Additionally, being a target school for 3 more top C-firms does not mean recruited more heavily for business. What about top I-banks, T-tanks? What about the numbers recruited by certain firms? What about the percentage?</p>

<p>I think we have seen enough posts about NU vs UChicago. They both are great schools in its own way. But if you ask me to pick one, I'd pick UChicago over NU 1000 times.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
Northwestern Cons:
-Evanston blows

[/quote]
</p>

<p>evanston is certainly better than hyde park, and also evanston is also within easier access to the city (linkin park/wrigleyville)</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
You've mentioned a couple of times that no NU graduate school was included in WSJ survey. That's true. UChicago has its law school and business school included because they are the top 5 schools. But in NU's professional schools, only Kellogg is qualified to be included in top 5. However, just like NU sends lots of its undergrads to UChicago GSB, UChicago sends lot of its undergrads to Kellogg too. So, even with Kellogg included in WSJ feeder school survey, we won't see a big difference.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>that's so totally unsubstantiated on your part. chicago has two schools included, do you think that could make up for, say, 3% of its graduating class? of COURSE you see a big difference when you include that school's own graduate schools, look how many people in harvard law school's entering class are from harvard.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Additionally, being a target school for 3 more top C-firms does not mean recruited more heavily for business. What about top I-banks, T-tanks? What about the numbers recruited by certain firms? What about the percentage?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>those numbers aren't available, it can be assumed that all high-powered business firms follow the same model and seek the same undergraduates, uchicago is recruited on par with UT-Austin, SMU. northwestern with princeton.</p>

19

<p>Big deal. Who cares? So the consulting firm recruitment is a little bit better--doesn't mean much about the overall academics.</p>

<p>Also, I don't think that you can draw the conclusion that because Northwestern gets a lot of consulting recruiters, it also gets more recruiters in general. Maybe...but you said it yourself that that data doesn't exist (apparently), so why try to draw conclusions from nonexistent data?</p>

20

<p>Why is Evanston a con? It's a nice little city, and it's right next to the northside of Chicago... I get the feeling that a lot of posters here haven't been to either of these schools.</p>