Based on what? (Both of my kids toured Brown and were turned off by the guides.)
All four on your list are top ~20 in econ, so any will prepare her well for grad school. (NYU is also top 20 in Econ, so if NYC is her cup of tea…)
I also would advise Cal, for numerous reasons, including weather, the ability to take graduate level classes if she chooses, close proximity to Silicon Valley, large % of fellow Asians both at Cal and in the SF bay area, and it’s International reputation.
UCLA would be my second suggestion, based on the same parameters as above, except that she would be located in the thriving LA region instead of N Cal.
What are typical class sizes at Cal?
As an ethnically South Asian student in Hong Kong, I’m sure OP’s daughter is accustomed to being in a non-majority ethnic group. Brown has 14% Asian-American plus 12% International, many of whom are Asian as well, so I’m going to guess that the overall gene pool representation looks like at least one in five. Unless OP indicates being part of a racial majority is important to his daughter, I think we should assume as a default that they’re more interested in comparing other attributes of her potential schools.
There is indeed all sorts of amazingness at Berkeley. There are also thirty one thousand undergraduates walking past those Nobel-designated parking spaces every day, as well as competing for space in classes, in housing, and so on. As an international student at UCB, a substantial chunk of your 64K/year is going to subsidize the in-state students who are paying 36K/year to share all the same resources. For a cost of attendance that’s only 11% greater, I would choose Brown for undergrad. Berkeley and UChicago would absolutely be top contenders for grad school, for all of the reasons stated upthread.
@bluebayou , my assessment about Dartmouth is based on the party culture and the heavy influence of Greek life. OP’s description of his daughter as preferring a more low-key social scene sounds more Brown-like to me. I’m going to agree with you on disliking the Brown tour. We did it too, and came away with an icky “we’re doing you a giant favor to even let you tour” taste in our mouths. (My older daughter also had an absolutely abysmal alumni interviewer from Brown, who took breaks from looking out the window only to look at her watch, lol.) Then again, the Berkeley tour came off very full-of-itself too. (In sharp contrast to the Davis tour which very effectively sold the undergrad experience there.) The UChicago info session and tour were wonderful and gave us warm fuzzies galore. However… over a decade of hearing about student experiences at all these schools, I have not seen all that much correlation between reported student quality-of-life, and quality-of-marketing. If OP’s daughter has to decide among these choices without further first-hand experiences, my opinion is that Brown sounds like the best fit. But obviously she would find phenomenal opportunities and some proportion of like-minded students at any of these schools. It’s not like her prospects would be any less bright if she hadn’t gotten into Brown and had to choose among the other three!
Future grad prospects per WSJ:
Dartmouth #7
Brown #12
Chicago #14
Cal #41
If I wanted to stay on the West Coast, then I’d advise my kid to go with UCLA over Cal for similar education to Cal, but better weather and campus. However, Brown would be my #1 choice, because of class sampling, open curriculum, laid back atmosphere and Ivy League brand.
I live and work among the Brown population each and every day. They are a wonderfully diverse group. Including social diversity. There are sporty types, artists, tied looking science kids and literary types. All mixed together. I would say economically less diverse but only by the number of Canada goose jackets.
But the funny thing is, unlike my experience at my daughters school which may be even more “wealthy” , the Brown kids also may have purple hair and carrying some art project. It’s much more diverse than some others. And Asian and Indian representation is not a problem at Brown. Thing is, I see them in multi ethnic groups more often than not.
My final note, is I do pay attention to moods. I have a concern and involvement with suicide prevention initiatives. It’s a pretty happy group at brown. Lots of smiles. Focused and busy, for sure.
But they appear healthy, just a general impression. That’s important. I’ve seen different vibe and feel among the students elsewhere.
For pure Econ chops, as I mentioned earlier, u of c has the best scholarship.
But not so far ahead to be probative.
Cal has everything a very successful public research uni can offer. Big choices. Big brains. And big opportunities. But it’s big and less intimate.
The combo of brown’s math excellence and Econ strength is a great combo.
For quality of life. Safety to walk all over the city and college hill. The way the students are embraced by the local community and catered to and local fun. it’s really amazing.
The other schools have a few more challenges off campus. As a parent who will be a world away, it might be comforting to know your child is studying in that type of place.
However as a student from Hong Kong, it may feel a bit small. And they will certainly be safe on all three campuses and your child most likely knows how to navigate a big city. And the big cities have a lot to offer as well.
Good luck. Just my two cents. And note I have attended zero of the three schools. I only happen to live in Providence. And have spent time in the other cities. But I have no direct experience with cal or u of c.
@OhiBro if you read the entire thread you would have seen my responses
@ohiobro. Well said. @Nocreativity1 is a he. And a highly successful advisor in wealth management. And has a student at a top Ivy League school.
Thanks privatebanker. To be transparent please note my son is an applied math and Econ major at Brown so I do have some biases (not against any school but pro Brown given my sons experience).
I can also verify I am a male and
while I appreciate the comment success is hard to define, happiness less so. Thankfully I am very lucky and happy ?
Oh goodness - so much nit-picking on this thread. I think Berkeley makes the most sense. Unless she’s outdoorsy and wants to experience the East Coast, cold weather, etc. In that case, Brown would probably be the better choice. Dartmouth might be a bit too much of a culture shock, but she would have access to lots of nature! U Chicago is known for its economics department, but it sounds like she has a lot of reservations about going there.
With all due respect, that is an uninformative study. Of course, the top privates are top feeders to top professional schools – since the top privates select for strong test takers. It should be no surprise that the grads of top privates ace teh LSAT, MCAT, GMAT and GRE.
Not to mention that the big public Unis have a lot of grads who have zero interest in grad/professional school. For example, an EECS grad will have plenty of job opportunities.
I found it very informative, when your comparing private vs. private and public vs. public. Just taking public vs. public side, UMich is #30 and Cal is #41. And UCLA didn’t make this list. That’s all surprising.
And Dartmouth at #7 and Chicago at #14 is surprising. I’d expect it to be the other way around.
And the OP mentioned grad school prospects.
I’d vote for Dartmouth. Great econ department and lots of options for environmental science classes as well.
In find the wsj ranking a bit misleading. It is interesting and informative. More surprising than anything else.
It’s a bit shocking at how few grads are going straight to grad school. On cc it seems the plan of every poster.
Perhaps the survey doesn’t track long enough. Med school law school and especially MBAs all tend to have a few years out of school before going, especially leading b schools . It is nearly mandatory.
The engineering schools are artificially low too.
Lastly and most importantly, is after you go down a few spots everyone is in the single digits. No one should choose a school because 5 or 20 kids or 9% or 3% out of class go to grad school. In absolute terms, the bigger schools have a larger cohort. Maybe it gives them more of the “elite minds” to “hang out” with that lots of posters point to for the smaller schools.
It should not be surprising if you dig into the details of the article. There is plenty of self-selection between west coast grads and midwest grads. (hint; the article excluded several top grad/professional schools on the west coast as they would not share data… and was widely discussed on cc a long time ago. But still its good for east coast news bias!)
here’s the cc link from many moons ago.
Note, Stanford (Biz, Med & Law) were excluded. Berkeley (Haas & Boalt) Law were excluded. Northwestern (biz & med & law) were excluded. UCLA med was excluded.
@ bluebayou: Seriously, have you read the comments in that thread? I’m finding the opening page of comments in the link vile. [Adding, I think they may even violate current ToS.]
Maybe you could just supply the ranked list?
^^back in teh day, a little snark was acceptable. But posters like collegehelp and slipper were highly valued posters. From collegehelp:
Sorry, I think the “list” is bogus. (It just shows that attending the usual suspects – HYP – is the way to grad/professional school.)
Again, it ignores students matriculating to Stanford Law (#2/#3, Stanford Biz, #1/#2, and Stanford Med…) and UCSF Med (~#5).
I would bet big cyber dollars that many Stanford undergrads – who are west coasters – go there instead of a certain college in Cambridge.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
For better or worse, it’s now 14 years later. What was acceptable back then is not acceptable now.
Regardless, the conversation is moving away from the OP’s question, discussing colleges not on the original list and performing analysis paralysis on various rankings. Let’s focus, please.