Hello Everyone
I was fortunate enough to be pulled off the UChicago Waitlist recently and I amd currently debating between UChicago and Johns Hopkins (JHU). One of the deciding factors for me is the academic rigor at UChicago. Particularly, I was hoping for insight as to the differences between 1) the Core and General Education Requirements 2) semester and quarter system and 3) whether UChicago really is a place where “fun goes to die.”
Thanks for all your help!
Quarter system means that 30 weeks of instruction in an academic year is divided into three 10-week quarters instead of two 15-week semesters. In most cases, this means more courses that are smaller than courses on a semester system. For example, frosh-level single variable calculus is divided into three courses on the quarter system versus two courses on the semester system.
Except I think that the third quarter of “frosh level single variable calculus” goes beyond frosh level single variable calculus. Current or recent students may correct me, but the curricular design of Chicago suggests that one is done with frosh level single variable calculus after two quarters. The third quarter of any of the basic calculus sequences is only required if students want to go on to higher level math, or if they want a major that requires more math than single-variable calculus.
OP: Most colleges have some sort of general education requirements. There’s a whole spectrum of ways to have general education requirements, and the Chicago Core is on that spectrum, as is whatever Hopkins does. What’s unique-ish about the Core is that there is a considerable amount of common material that is taught in all (or most) of the Humanities courses, the Social Science courses, and to a lesser extent the Civilization courses (and of course the math, biology, and physical science courses). The result – in theory and in practice – is that by the end of their second years all Chicago students, regardless of their majors and interests, have read a lot of the same or very similar texts, and spend a lot of time thinking about the same basic issues. That makes it easier for them to discuss intellectual issues with one another across different disciplines and natural inclinations. And they do that, a lot.
As for the quarter system, everyone agrees that it’s somewhat more intense than semesters. There are the same number of instructional weeks, but 50% more midterms, finals, and final papers, and a strong sense that you can’t waste a lot of time dawdling around. Most Chicago students will claim that they cover the same ground in 10 weeks that semester colleges cover in 15, but most non-Chicago students think that’s something of an exaggeration.
In any event, what I think is true is that the classroom is more central to students’ experience at Chicago than it is at any other college I know. People generally spend relatively more of their time and more of their mental energy on what they are actually studying and relatively less on outside activities than they do at similar colleges. People talk about what they are studying. There is little or no culture of missing class for anything.
As for the fun thing – that’s self-deprecating humor. If you don’t get the joke, or are overly concerned about it, Chicago may not be the place for you. With 7,000 18-22 year-olds in the same place, which happens to be a world-class city, there is always plenty of fun to be had if you want it, pretty much however you want it (unless your fantasy is living in a recruitment video for a SEC fraternity or sorority, and never having to listen to people talk about what they are studying). Sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll (and board games. museum trips, and movie nights) – they are all there. And there isn’t the kind of Manichean divide between partiers and non-partiers that one often sees in high schools. (But that’s pretty much true at all of Chicago’s peers, too.)
Quarters vs. Semesters:
The Core was simplified 20+ years ago in part because the College believed it wasn’t necessary to go beyond two quarters for most of the gen. ed. sequences; two was considered to be the equivalent of a full academic year elsewhere. The extent to which that is (still) true might depend on the particular subject. It’s probably the case that the reading requirements for the two-course Hum are about the same as two semesters elsewhere, and that the three-course Sosc. sequence is equivalent to well over two semesters and possibly as many as three elsewhere.
Academic Rigor/Calculus:
The UChicago standard sequence through Multi-variate (151-153) is completed in three quarters. JHU’s Calc. sequence for Physical Science and Engineering, Calc. I-III (108-109, 202) is completed in three semesters with multi-variate being covered that third semester. One way to compare rigor would be to see how AP exam credit would affect your placement. With a 5 on BC, one matriculating at JHU can skip both semesters of univariate Calculus (108 and 109) and place into 202. In contrast, UChicago skips you over just that first quarter (151) and places you into 152. They used to allow you to place into 153 but changed that a couple years ago. Not sure why but one can surmise that either the year-long Calc. sequence has picked up speed over the years or kids were struggling unless they started in an earlier part of the sequence.
Core vs. Gen. Ed. elsewhere:
Not sure what JHU does specifically, but the UChicago Core is distinctive from many other schools’ gen. ed (or liberal ed) requirements in one respect: strict adherence to a sequence of courses. At some schools, “liberal ed” is really more like a smorgasbord: choose one course here, one there - and you are done. In contrast, UChicago requires that you complete the requirement with an approved pairing or triplet of courses. And a good majority of the time, the order will matter. This might sound inflexible, but stuff like ordered sequences do matter if the goal is to learn to think competently across a broad range of disciplines.
Where Fun Goes to Die:
My kid thinks UChicago IS fun. She also tells others that it’s pure hell and she loves it. So she has the double benefit of enjoying herself AND scaring others off (particularly those who might not be the best fit). The truth is that while the quarter system is intense, as has already been mentioned, it actually is possible to get through with relatively easier courses/majors than used to be available in the past. So Fun probably doesn’t have the same death-wish that it used to.
http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/mathematics/#mathematicscourses
The typical calculus sequence of 15100-15200-15300 covers single variable calculus though the first half of 15300 (the infinite sequences and series and Taylor expansions part), then starts an introduction to multivariable calculus. I.e. slightly accelerated compared to calculus courses (including both college calculus and high school calculus BC) which do not introduce multivariable calculus at the end of the first year. The rest of multivariable calculus is covered in a subsequent course, like 20000.
This type of organization is not all that unusual. For example, here are some other quarter system colleges that do that in their first year calculus sequences:
https://ucdavis.pubs.curricunet.com/Catalog/mat-courses-sc (21A-21B-21C).
https://www.washington.edu/students/crscat/math.html (124-125-126).
It really is quite pointless to compare calculus course sequences. There is too much variance in the depth that one goes into, I mean a community college could say exactly the same description of there calculus sequence, and do you really think they are equivalent?
Then how does one decide between schools using the academic criteria that OP requested? Shall we compare history seminars instead?
They are both great schools. My son considered both before choosing Chicago and he is just about to complete his first year. He has no regrets in his decision. However, he has always been the kind of kid that studied to learn something and not to get a grade. For fun he read the Odyssey this summer, then found out it was one of the first books he had to read in his HUM sequence.
However, he is also the type of kid that likes to chill with friends, go to alternative rock concerts by obscure artists and other forms of “art.” Some of the other self-deprecating humor sayings that UChicago puts on t-shirts are also kind of scary if taken literally, for some reason that one stuck. I don’t think he would say he isn’t having fun.
I can only tell you on the Qtr vs. Sem. set-up that it is what you make it. I’ve done both in undergrad (Purdue) I was on Semesters and for my MBA(Kellogg) I was on quarters. I didn’t notice any intensity difference. I enjoyed the variety of quarters more. What I mean is that 10 weeks for a class and then onto something new was fun for me. Sure, some classes covered two quarters and that didn’t change, but many did. To me, that kept school “fresh.”
The other thing I think about is, sure it might be more work in a short period of time, but many people have been able to do it before me and I’ll be competing with those who will be doing it if I don’t/can’t. Wouldn’t I want to prove to myself and others that I did? Don’t get me wrong from the people I’ve talked to who went/know JHU, I think it is also very rigorous and intense.
You should know that there is some investigation going on into should Chicago switch to semesters. I think a lot of it has to do with summer internships. (Quarter schools start later and end at Xmas, work to spring break, then start the third QTR. Chicago will finish this year on June 14. That is almost a month and a half later than a lot of schools and a month later than most. Next year the first day of class I think is October 2nd. That summer schedule does make finding a summer job interesting. I’m not going to say tougher, because there appears to be a lot of people want UChicago students to work the summer and I don’t know many who have been shut out. However, for prospective students, it is understandable to think it might be tougher and to a prospy, perception can be reality if they choose to go elsewhere.
Good luck on your decision. I ask my son regularly if he has any regrets choosing Chicago over his other options and he instantly says “absolutely not.”
Yes that is a theme at UChicago, DD doesn’t look at grades during the quarter she just want to focus on learning the material and not worrying about it. Similarly to your son she is self teaching Python. Small sample, but it give you a sense of the type of students who attend UChicago.
So, in part, to answer the OP’s question if you’re concerned about the academic rigor at UChicago it may not be the place for you. It certainly would not have been the college for me.
“You should know that there is some investigation going on into should Chicago switch to semesters.”
- To clarify, anyone still considering UChicago should not expect this to be changing anytime soon. It's best to go in understanding you'll be under a quarter system for a good portion, if not all, of your education.
After having almost completed 1 year at UChicago, my son definitely said he would not go to any other school if given a choice. He is also having a lot of fun. There are many types of people there, so I’m sure you’ll find a group to hang out with. He also likes the quarter system, no complaints about that.
But definitely go to the school that you vibe with the most.
A lot of comments about 1st year difficulty here. The courses universally get harder after your 1st year. 1st year courses are typically a breeze, including the “hard” ones like Honors intro courses, Power, Philper. You should factor that in your decision.
Difficulty after the core depends on yourself and the courses you’re doing. Some do Honors Analysis and do Graduate Analysis in their third year. Some do regular Analysis and go on to take a bunch of easy electives like 273. The difference is pretty huge. In economics, you have people going on to take graduate price theory/theory of income vs. people who do business economics; again the difference is huge.
Another thing that isn’t mentioned is that there is a stigma with easier courses. People do laugh at you, maybe anonymously, or whatever, if you take something easy like, say, Mind. I do think there’s a divide between the people who are aiming for grad school and taking the hard courses and the people who just want to survive. Like you basically don’t see these groups communicating.