Impressive but not apples to apples.
As people have already pointed out, two rounds of ED means that the numbers aren’t really comparable.
Even if you compare against yourself, the only real “apples to apples” comparison there is, it is impressive to improve yield about 1%. When your yield is in the “single digits” it makes planning much easier. I don’t remember the exact numbers but a larger percentage of the class this year came from the RD round, which also means that the yield number that is comparable, increased at an even greater clip.
While it might not be directly comparable, it is a very good indicator on “Brand Health.”
Wow. Why don’t they change their name to Harvard West and then they won’t have to incessantly compare themselves to it? As someone who went to the College in the 1980s, I find it really sad how Chicago is forever trumpeting its yield and comparing itself to the Ivies. There was a time when Chicago had the self-confidence not to do so. Indeed, you never find Columbia, Harvard, Yale, or Princeton comparing themselves to Chicago (or anyplace else for that matter).
Actually it is very natural to compare yourself against peers/competitors. If you read notes from Stanford’s admissions office (they are clearly concerned about losing cross admits to Harvard). Everyone wants to be on top so comparisons to the current top dog will come naturally.
Its called benchmarking, look it up. It is a standard business practice, a principle that is used in continuous improvement and for competitive strategy.
“UChicago rolls out the red carpet for all these events and they are wonderful. Harvard’s programming is kind of meh. In this particular area, I have to say that Nondorf knows what he is doing.”
Exactly what the old school Chicago grads hate - Chicago moving up in the rankings (dare I say gaming) because of heavy heavy marketing and addition of ED1 and ED2. I think the old school Chicago alums wanted the school to outshine others in the ranking through purely organic and academic improvements. Not salesy stuff like expensive regional dinners for accepted students in Manhattan and other high price areas, not by sending 1000 mailers per student and certainly not by diminishing the admissions percentages by accepting a huge proportion of the class via ED1 and ED2.
That’s the interesting discussion found on these UChicago threads.
^^Yes but UChicago rolls out these wonderful events for OWeek (orientatation week) as well as Family Weekend for people who have already committed to the college. If it were pure marketing, they didn’t have to do that, as these were already incoming students/families. (Also, I don’t think Nondorf is responsible for these events, as probably another department would take over after admittance, but yes, Nondorf is doing a great job.)
The interesting thing about strategy. Find your strengths and exploit those strengths. UChicago has done that by turning to ED1 and ED2. If you can get a pretty good understanding of what your class is going to look like early on, while raising your average SAT score and other measures, why would you not?
Do you think career Sears employees are happy that Sears stayed the course being a traditional catalog big box store? How many are saying, “We are really struggling as a business, but at least we are true to ourselves?” My cousin was a higher up at Borders, she isn’t happy that they didn’t progress.
I look at the results:
USNWR Ranking is up
World University Ranking is up
Grad school rankings (except MD) is up and top of the game at Business (on top of HBS, which is a major win)
The mill of Econ professors winning Nobel Prizes continues to work
Undergraduates are winning Fellowships
The outcomes report last year said something like 85% of graduates from the class of 2017 who are going to law school are going to a T14 law school.
Share of voice is also being dominated by UChicago in recent years with the emphasis on “Free and Open Discourse” and the “Empower Initiative.”
If they can do all this while continuing on being known as a “Very tough” or “The Toughest” undergraduate institution. Is the brand really damaged? Early in the process, sure people are going to say things like “You are trying to be who you are not.” or “Stop changing to be Harvard.” But five to ten years from now, that will fade away.
Perspective from an n of 1. Throughout my son’s pre-undergraduate career, especially early on, he would attack his homework and projects in such a way that he wanted to learn the material and not do just enough for an A. As he matriculated through HS, he waned a bit in that approach when he saw others be just as successful in school as he was with less work. It was kind of sad to see. I now see him embracing that former vigor in his Hum and Soc classes. To a point where he is adding more classes next quarter then he needs to just because he is seeing the advantage the UChicago environment has to cultivate his ability and desire to learn. I’m very new to UChicago, but from what I’ve read, that is the spirit of The College. Not, we want to be ourselves on our own conditions.
In my view, one negative of ED is that many families feel that cannot apply ED because of financial concerns (mine was one, even though UChicago was first choice). Increasing the percentage of the class from the ED pool drives down the percentage of the class from RD and EA, where many price-sensitive but highly qualified applicants are. These are the very people that UChicago says it is trying to attract through some of its other initiatives.
I’m curious, if you cannot pay in the ED round, what will change in the RD and EA rounds? I’m not trying to be flippant, just to understand the dynamic.
People who want to be able to compare financial aid/merit offers are usually unwilling to apply ED to a college, even if it’s clearly their first choice. They may be enthusiastic about applying in a non-binding program where they can compare offers from various colleges. Also, there’s a suspicion – well-founded at some colleges, although I am not certain whether that’s true at Chicago – that accepted ED applicants are offered far less merit money than EA or RD applicants because the college knows they have already made a decision to attend and do not have to be enticed with discounts to seal the deal.
The bottom line is that it’s almost an article of faith with many parents that anyone who is price-sensitive cannot/should not apply ED anywhere.
I don’t believe they give merit to ED applicants. Unless an applicant is a very poor or very rich, ED is a scary proposition. What if 2nd choice gives you a full tuition merit scholarship? Even though UChicago is 1st choice you may feel you need to go with 2nd choice based on family finances, other kids, etc. I don’t have data, but I would think that the average income of ED applicants is well above that of EA and RD.
In our case we have twins. We didn’t know what kind of merit aid either of them would get. It would have been irresponsible for us to let one of them apply ED to a very expensive school before we had any other data points for either kid. We told them at the beginning of the process neither of them was allowed to apply ED anywhere. Luckily, it worked out for us. Our daughter got into uchicago EA with a merit scholarship. And - glory be - our son got a full cost of attendance merit scholarship to his college of choice, thus enabling his sister to go to UChicago.
Besides financial considerations, some applicants may not want to commit to ANY college at an early stage. They may want a more in-depth look at their interested programs at each college (after acceptance, of course) and make their final decision in April.
Isn’t it too shallow to use gimmicks to win ranking games for a school use to be a home for intellectuals?
^@CupCakeMuffins - no it isn’t. The intellectuals don’t really care how Admissions and Admin. do their jobs as long as the students are of good quality. And it’s pretty clear that the quality of the median student showing up today has improved.
@1NJParent - that’s how our D17 was! Very hard to get her to zero in on any particular school during the early part of the cycle . . .
“Also, there’s a suspicion – well-founded at some colleges, although I am not certain whether that’s true at Chicago – that accepted ED applicants are offered far less merit money than EA or RD applicants because the college knows they have already made a decision to attend and do not have to be enticed with discounts to seal the deal.” Has anyone ever confirmed a case of someone who applied ED to Chicago (or any selective college, for that matter) getting any merit scholarship designated as a “merit” scholarship that (1) was not offered automatically based on previously published objective criteria (e.g., National Merit) and (2) was not the result of calling up to negotiate after admission? I am curious.
@"Kathy V "Our daughter got into uchicago EA with a merit scholarship. " They still have merit? I’m sure that will be gone in the very short term.
Top schools don’t need merit to entice students, there are lines out the door of parents willing to full pay to get into a T10 college.
@1NJParent that is fine, but parents and students need to weigh that desire to keep their options open to the data that suggest ED increases your chance of acceptance, or rather non-ED slots are going to be fewer. I believe the argument that @Kathy V has is a better argument. While it is said an ED decision is binding unless the FA package isn’t enough to make it possible to attend. Many, including myself, have a different definition how that equation works than most universities.
@CupCakeMuffins if they are gaming the rankings for the sole purpose of rising in the rankings, maybe. But, I doubt that is the motivation of UChicago. The motivation is to get the best class they can possibly get. If you go by the objective evidence, that is working. Their average SAT score has to be top 5 now at 1510. Very bright kids are choosing to go there and they are doing whatever they can to get the “best and brightest” (J. Nondorf, class of 2022 convocation). There is a legitimate reason for every so called gimmick that assists in getting that “Best and Brightest” class. Is an outcome of that “gimmick” higher rankings, most likely. But it is nothing that any other school is unable to do to also game the rankings. In fact other schools have ED1 and ED2, but are not even ranked in the top 10. Many schools market like UChicago, but they are not in the top 10.
Also top schools don’t ‘normally’ give merit because where do you draw the line when so many admitted/incoming students have skyhigh gpa and sats, etc. They’d have to give merit to practically the entire incoming class, at least that’s what I’m guessing.
@suzyQ7 Yes, they still have merit (at least for class of 2022) - not full tuition but enough to squeak UChicago just into the range of what we felt we could pay. Yes, there are many parents willing to full pay. However, if UChicago wants to encourage more low and moderate income students to apply, I think that continuing to increase the percentage of the class that is ED doesn’t help, while other initiatives they are taking are designed to do just that.