UCLA as an OOS student. Is it worth it? [$60k debt vs UGA no debt; pre-law or pre-psychology-PhD]

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Los Angeles
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as an OOS student, UCLA (admitted for 2027) is around $65k for me–and even more when i factor into the price of Westwood’s expenses (e.g. groceries, restaurants, etc). my parents are willing to pay $45k a year at any school i attend, but this would still leave me with abt $60k+ of debt at ucla for four years. is this worth it? Is this $60k a huge burden, or just an average loan burden?

i’m still waiting on many other schools though before making a final decision. i’m feeling nervous for other schools because i know i’ll be overwhelmed if i have to make a lot of decisions (i’m indecisive about everything, and it will be even more stressful trying to decide colleges).

UGA (already got admitted) would be $17k a year for me though. but i’m still waiting on Emory, USC, Rice, and the ivies, but all of these privates will likely be around $50-60k a year for me, and UCLA rn is around $65k (tho ucla’s location also plays a role into how expensive it’ll be, as emory would likely be cheaper since atl isn’t terribly expensive).

anyways, UCLA (and USC) match ALL my values, goals, and lifestyle, especially because i want to do jobs in California after graduating, but i’m not sure if the financial burden is worth it for both me and my family. UGA doesn’t match me or my values (and really don’t want to stay in their Athens campus, a small town in GA), but it’s significantly cheaper. It’s hard trying to balance fit & values, along with aid…

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You as a student cannot take out loans of more than $27K ($5500 for Freshman, $6500 Sophomore and $7500 Junior/Senior year) for the 4 years so will your parents fund the gap with Parent plus loans or is $45K/year the maximum including any loans that they will fund?

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it seems to me that 17K per year for UGA is a huge bargain and well worth it.

what values do you mean, that UCLA or USC match but UGA doesn’t? it’s not like a den of thieves over there in Athens.

and as far as values- think of all the freedom graduating debt free would give you to do whatever altrusitic career or gap year you want?

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sorry about this length, but i want to explain fully
I’ve been to 13 countries my entire life, but I’ve lived in a very rural, homogeneous town (3 hrs from Atlanta, for context) in Georgia my entire life, and it feels suffocating/confining.
After traveling to 13 countries, my greatest value is diversity (culturally and creatively), especially because I want to pursue jobs in sociology and psychology. I absolutely love learning EVERYTHING i can about the world, culture, people, and society. I’ve always been an extremely curious person who never stops wondering about people, their accents, reasons for their behavior–always asking everything i can abt diversity and society. However, UGA would lack the diversity that I value so much. Since it’s in state and not a very racially/culturally/experience-wise diverse school, I feel like it’d be repeating my last 18 years in rural georgia. i want to continue exploring everything about the world, and i feel like college is this platform to move, meet new people, and learn from so many people’s diverse experiences. i want to feel free and move to a big city and find this diversity for my never-ending curiousity and ambition. UGA would limit my experiences and desire for diversity, new experiences, and curiousity, and almost “confine” me into this “box.”
UCLA and USC have incredible social activism opportunities and so much diversity. they also have incredible programs for psychology/sociology and amazing social research/social analysis, in the classroom, and in LA.

Another value of mine is creative opportunity, i’ve always used art as a form of self-expression and uniqueness. when i’m constantly inspired creatively and aesthetically everyday, i feel at my best. I’m an artist (fashion, filmmaking, design, etc) and even started an aesthetics club at my school so that others can find creative opportunities in rural Georgia. UGA lacks these creative opportunities and inspiration, which is such a major value of mine. I feel that UGA’s creative inspiration would also be the same that i’ve seen in my georgia town i’ve lived in for 18 years. but ucla and usc both have incredible film programs, fashion inspiration, and arts (in LA as well), and i want that new inspiration to constantly feel inspired as a creator.

location is so important to me too–> all my values (e.g. diversity, social analysis, activism, arts) are all found in urbanized areas, like LA, and not Athens. Athens is also a small town and may limit the connections/internships i make, and would even be a repeat of my rural town in georgia i’ve lived in for 18 years. i also want to find jobs in california in the future, and usc and ucla are key to developing these connections and alumni networks.

i’ll be attending grad school for either law school, or for psychology (to become psychology professor). either way, california has great graduate schools in-state, and if i become a lawyer, there’s so many opportunities for activism and law in california. if i become a professor, california also has many colleges to work at (not that ga doesn’t, but cali does more so).

yes, some may say that i could just move to california after going to UGA, but i want to develop these connections and explore these diverse experiences within undergrad. i don’t want to feel “trapped” for another 4 years. also, going to cali in undergrad allows me to develop more connections and get used to living independently in california within undergrad.

Not sure what the reputation of uga is like outside of GA, but ucla and usc would likely look better to employers/have greater global recognition. also, it may sound superficial, but i feel like most people at my highschool also expect me to go out of state, since most ppl just go to UGA. i hate that others are influencing my decision, but as a high-achiever, i can’t help but feel influenced by the expectations of others…i hate that though, and wish social expectations weren’t influencing me.

i mainly feel like UGA would limit my exposure to the diversity and curiosity i always want to embrace to truly feel at my happiest. for context, my school is extremely homogenous culturally and creatively…i’m one of the only asian-americans in the entire school, and one of the only “fashion-obsessed” people. essentially, i want to continue seeking new, diverse people all around me, beyond the homogeneity of my town. i want new experiences, people, culture, everything, but i think UGA would limit this (bc it’s also not extremely diverse). the location of uga isn’t ideal, and UGA is less reputable than usc/ucla of course.

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Please figure out how much you have to pay per month AFTER law and grad school to cover your expenses. I am guessing, it will be closer to $80-100K assuming nothing is accrued as loans for grad school, which can be incorrect, especially for law school.
Assistant professors make $80-90K per year. Assuming you are lucky enough to land a good tenure track position. Can you afford the loan payment while living on that? Lawyers – depends; but law school will easily add $150K on top of your undergraduate loans for a top 15 school.
Try spending some time here:
https://studentaid.gov/loan-simulator/
The other stuff you mentioned related to diversity, while that indeed is true, you will practice in the community and not your school. Is the community diverse?

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my parents can pay (out of pocket, without loans) $45k a year. If ucla is $60k a year, that means i’ll have to get the remaining $20k (that my parents won’t pay out of their own savings) with loans. of the remaining 20k per year, i’ll have to cover it through federal direct subsidized, federal direct unsub, and parent plus. but these loans will be repaid by me, not my parents.

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So you have $5500 maximum in Federal Loans Freshman year. So your parents are willing to take out the Parent Plus loans? They are in their name and responsible for repayment if you are unable to pay them back.

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through parent plus loans.
but my parents already said that they will only pay $45k a year out of pocket w/their savings, so whatever loans i borrow will all be repaid by me after i graduate.

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I understand but Parent plus loans are not your loans, they are your parents and in their name. Regardless if you pay them back or not, they are still responsible for the loans.

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The real economic differential that you should be weighing is $48k/yr * 4 = $192k.

Have you really looked at UGA or are you just in love with the idea of going to school in SoCal? I would never recommend someone going to a school if it in no way fits and becomes a miserable 4 year experience. But I would be shocked that you could not find diversity in UGA. There is a junior year abroad option.

Let’s pretend you parents are willing to give you the $28k/yr ($112k over 4 years) in savings between their $45k “budget” and $17k to go to UGA. Would you take that?

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UGA has nearly 40k students. 25% of frosh are out of state; about 33% are POC. If you can’t find diversity there, you aren’t trying.

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Short answer: only if you can afford it w/o pain (incl debt)

This.

FWIW, the average time to pay of $60K in student debt is 25 years. You might be thinking ‘oh I will get such a good salary that I can pay it off faster’- and you might be right. But collegekid2 just got a job in CA paying a huge salary for a new grad- that turns out to be 1/2 the average wage of the area where the job is. That enormous salary will allow her to live about as well as she has a grad school student on a stipend.

eta:

  1. you are talking (expensive) grad school (law) and (if psych) a low paying, highly unlikely job (getting a position as a prof these days is like getting a slot on the PGA tour- it happens, but not often and not easily). Debt is not your friend.

  2. you chose the schools you applied to knowing your budget. If your only affordable choice is UGA, that’s on you. There are still schools accepting applications (and there will be more after May 1). UCLA / USC are NOT the only schools with diversity. I get wanting to move- but you don’t appear to have stacked the odds in your favor.

ps, f you want international, University College Dublin would probably still take your application, and should come in under budget (esp as most courses are 3 years, not 4).

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In my mind, this alone rules out UCLA.

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Worth it? No. Its up to you if you want to put that pressure on yourself AND your parents.
What if one of your parents gets ill or dies and they can’t afford the huge yearly payout for your dreams?

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It sounds like you will be miserable at UGA or have convinced yourself you will be, so I understand exploring other options.

If your parents won’t take out parent plus loans to fund the gap between $45k and whatever private school you favor charges, then it’s UGA or something more radical…how about heading to California and go to something like Santa Monica College and transfer to UCLA or USC (USC takes a lot of SMC students). Would save money for grad school that way too. Maybe not ideal and negates the 4 year college experience, but it is a way to get to California that works with your budget. Only you can decide what your priorities are, and how to make them fit in the budget you have to work with.

Like @Gumbymom asked though, do you know enough about CA to be sure you will like it? Is it a fantasy or have you experienced CA in your travels? I get the diversity you seek, cause no question, CA is home to that, and I also hear you on the creative parts of your soul and that being a great fit with Socal. I admire you wanting to do something different, you just have to look at what is realistic, what your long term goals are, and again, what is the realistic way to get them done. Best of luck to you!

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I’ve been to 13 countries, so diversity is very important to me. Having a school 70% one way is still a large amount (UGA is 70% one race)—keep in mind, I’ve gone to school in GA my entire life and have experienced schools extremely similar to UGA’s cultural and creative diversity, and it still lacks the experiences I want. Also, remember that I’ve always been one of three or so Asians in my entire school, and I can’t help but want more and more diversity. Many ppl at my highschool now will also go to UGA, which makes UGA feel like a repeat of my highschool experience. Also, The majority students at UGA also went to schools in Georgia, which is extremely similar to my experiences—even if the school is 30% POC, race alone isn’t exactly what I mean by diversity. I’m also including diversity in experiences, as in, have they lived similar upbringings as me? Considering they were similarly raised in rural georgia/georgia area, we likely share pretty similar experiences. I just think that college is a large learning experience to experiment and continue exploring everything about the world, as well as gaining incredibly-new experiences. This social diversity/questioning is also so important for my desires to pursue psychology, as I want to analyze everyone’s experiences and learn more about social behavior. Also, when I say “diversity,” I’m also talking about creative diversity/inspiration. I want to constantly feel inspired creatively, where people have diverse outfits, artistic styles, filmmaking, etc. and the creative diversity scene isn’t huge at UGA. Of course I could get this partly at UGA (or many colleges), but it’s still pretty limited at UGA for the vast freedom I want. I just don’t know if I’d be happy at UGA. Nonetheless, I could go to other schools like Emory (which is far more diverse, and also ATL is cheaper than LA) but alot of my other priv schools will still be around $55k, but still cheaper than ucla though.

But again, I truly don’t know if my view towards UGA is actually reality, or if I’ve just convinced myself to dislike it. Essentially, I think I just have a negative disposition towards UGA because of social expectations. Psychologically analyzing myself, I think I feel this way because almost everyone goes to UGA (even including my brother), and I’ve always “stereotyped” the school to be the “school that everyone goes to” and that I need to “strive for more,” as I’ve always grown up in a household where I was taught to strive for more and more. I also wanted to achieve more than UGA because people have always “expected” me to go elsewhere. I also wanted to achieve more than my brother (this is toxic, but I’ve truly been brought up in a household where I’ve been conditioned to always want to compete academically)
Also, a HUGE reason why I know I want to go to UCLA is because of social expectations. People in my school rarely leave Georgia, and I want to “be unique” and meet their expectations. They expect me to go to a prestigious, OOS school. I can’t help but feel influenced by social expectations; I know that I like UCLA for its prestige, and the social validation. I know it’s a toxic idea—but I can’t help but feel this way. I’ve always been a perfectionist, striving for more, and who always wants to meet the expectations of others, and ik this is distorting my feelings about choosing colleges, but I can’t escape my perfectionism. Overall, I think this shows that my stereotyping/social expectations/upbringing are distorting my ability to think logically about UGA.

But yes, I do think a part of me could be being influenced by my idealization of cities like LA (and NYC), especially since, as an artist, these cities are always romanticized for their aesthetics in the media. But parts of me know that UCLA is very illogical, but I keep trying to deny this and cope by making excuses (e.g. “what if I establish Cali residency after 2 years?” Or, “Oh I’ll just pay off the loans), when I know these are all illogical excuses. My
emotions are just clouding over my ability to think rationally and make logical decisions. I’ve always dreamed of leaving my rural town and pursuing my dreams. Senior year was also so stressful that I started to cope with my stress by dreaming about moving elsewhere and telling myself the stress would be worth it, so I feel that the cities have become my emotional coping mechanism, which clouds my ability to make logical decisions about them.

But of course, it’s not the cities alone that I love about UCLA/USC—it’s that they also meet a lot of my core values too.

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OP- hugs to you. I totally get wanting to put over a thousand miles between where you grew up and the person you want to become.

But your plan is not a practical one. As noted- you cannot take out enough in loans to fund the gap. And if your parents take out the loan-- and you need to pay all the loans back- your career goals are going to have to take a backseat. Law school costs a fortune; grad school in psych will likely cost – and your dream of working with marginalized populations or doing activism as a lawyer- no. Young people with loans like yours try to get the highest possible paying job they can so they aren’t stuck with grad school loans when they are in their 50’s.

So figure out a plan that does not require so much debt AND gets you someplace urban. That’s step one. Do you have any other acceptances yet?

And to answer your question-- no, UCLA out of state is not worth it. Unless you live in Nevada and can drive home for break or Thanksgiving, the costs of transportation will jack up the price tag you are looking at. I just came back from a trip to LA for work… I laugh when I see kids posting on CC about what they think their expenses will be going to college in California. I’ve got a corporate travel team, preferred credit cards, etc. to get the best possible rate on flights- and the airfare was about double what kids think it costs to fly from LA to wherever… and I wasn’t flying Xmas or Thanksgiving or another blackout period. Just a “regular” day in March.

Let us help you come up with a different plan.

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That is incredibly honest and introspective of you.

Frankly, I can totally see you in CA, someday. But having said that, pleeeez, ignore the social expectations you feel others are placing on you. Only you are placing those on you. To keep it real, 99% of them will not care about where you go 5 minutes after you graduate and certainly not by the fall. They will be focusing on their life. This is your life.

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OP - I know it might sound like a consolation prize - but UGA is a member of National Student Exchange - a program that would give you the opportunity to spend a year outside of GA attending another NSE campus while still paying tuition at your home campus. That would provide you an affordable way to check out California (or elsewhere) for a year, and save some money for graduate school.

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The difference between UGA and UCLA is NOT worth the difference in cost. The amount of debt that you and your parents would need to take on to attend UCLA is too much.

I would not allow my daughters to take on debt for their bachelor’s degree. One was very frustrated with this. Four years later she graduated. She found a DREAM job, it was both a great entry into what she wanted to do with her life and a great deal of fun for her. However, the pay was lousy (this job could pay badly because people wanted to do it). She could only take this job because she had no debt at all. It led to a second job, which led to her being accepted into a very good graduate program (where she is studying right now). She has thanked me for not allowing her to take on any debt. My other daughter because she graduated debt free with money in the bank (from an internship) was able to travel in Europe for three months after graduating (actually 89 days, on a 90 day tourist visa). She spent most of it in one location in Spain. Being debt free is a big deal.

UGA is not going to be like high school. It will be larger and more diverse. There will be students from all over the US and all over the world. Classes will be more demanding, and there will be a very wide range of classes and majors available. UGA is also academically very well regarded at least throughout the US and to some extent the world.

Also, without even looking I am confident that UGA has very good study abroad opportunities. Okay, I looked, they seem to call it “study away”. They also have international internship possibilities that look very interesting. You might want to spend a semester or a year at a different university in a different country. UGA can help you arrange this. UCLA could also, except that you would very likely not be able to afford it.

If you want to attend law school, then you need to be able to afford to attend law school. You do not want to start this hobbled with debt.

I live in the northeast of the US. To me UGA and UCLA are both very good universities.

The value of graduating debt free is huge.

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