<p>@drax12
My daughter was also accepted to both UCLA and Berkeley this year and several of her classmates.</p>
<p>@2018dad</p>
<p>But you have a beemer as your avi. How disadvantaged a background could she have had? 
Alright, congrats to your daughter also and for obtaining admission to Brown also. There I said it.</p>
<p>@add1line:</p>
<p>I know what I wanted to say…</p>
<p>The Achievement Scholarship which UCLA gave to you provisional on your attending the U, was originated by a very nice gentleman named Kirk Kerkorian, in the form of a gift of $200M. This is why it isn’t available at Cal. I think what he ultimately hopes is that his wonderful gift to you attending UCLA, if you do, will be paid forward when you become successful, and you will. This is his ultimate hope. But best of luck regardless of where you attend. </p>
<p>I know disadvantaged kids accepted to both this year too.</p>
<p>add1line, you don’t need your parents to sign for you to take out a Federal Direct Loan to cover the family and student portion of that aid, but they have to file the fafsa for you each year or you get nothing. It is down to that where they won’t work through the numbers and discuss at all? How long have you been talking about this, it is getting down to the wire. </p>
<p>You can reduce the gap of 2,650 per semester by spending less on books (used, borrowed), less on personal expenses, you likely won’t spend 900 per semester on that,. You can’t really spend less on travel, they only give 400 a semester. If you go off campus jr year, you should be able to reduce room and board by 3,000 to 4,000. But there is that terribly high insurance.</p>
<p>If it doesn’t work out in the end, you will at least be comfortable at UCLA and in an advantageous position, so go ahead and work with the numbers and pros and cons for a bit, but it seems like it may be just out of reach without family help.</p>
<p>Congratulations on getting accepted to Brown, and UCLA with such a great package. I’m a Brown alum, and I’m sure you would love the school, and I’d love to see you go there. But you need to approach this realistically and practically, and UCLA is the smart option. It really is a no-brainer. </p>
<p>The money is the main reason. Since your family lives paycheck to paycheck, I assume there isn’t a financial cushion in your family. Graduating debt-free is a gift you will really, really appreciate when you leave college. Having no debt means that you can make decisions about jobs, where you live, grad school, without having any existing financial obligations hanging over your head. Your parents won’t be able to help you with security deposits and buying furniture and work clothes. If you go to Brown, you will be worried about money a lot. You’ll worry about affording books, about being able to travel home, about whether to join your friends at a movie. </p>
<p>When it comes to “rank” or prestige, Brown and UCLA are close enough that this shouldn’t be a factor. Yes, I’m sure the smaller classes at Brown would be great, but if you are smart enough to get into Brown, you are smart enough to figure out how to make UCLA work for you.</p>
<p>This was a brutal winter on the East Coast. 30 degrees would have been considered balmy in February (and March). Factoring in wind chill, Providence temps dropped below zero on several occasions. Perhaps this won’t happen again, but you would have been absolutely miserable. I usually think people can adjust to the cold weather, but it sounds like you have health issues that could make that much more difficult. And the type of clothing you would need would be very expensive.</p>
<p>You’ll do great wherever you end up. Believe me, I’m sorry it won’t be Brown, but if they aren’t able to give you more money then you really need to go to UCLA. </p>
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<p>Let’s get a few things straight here: First of all, Cal isn’t that much more prestigious than UCLA; and Brown isn’t either. Prestige is largely relative depending on the part of the world you’re in. In California, UCLA, Cal, and Brown are all likely viewed as equals. Understand that UCLA is the third most prestigious university in California after Stanford and Berkeley (fourth if you include Caltech.) If you want some examples on how well UCLA holds its own against Cal, you can read my post here:</p>
<p><a href=“UC berkeley vs UCLA - #13 by beyphy - University of California - Berkeley - College Confidential Forums”>UC berkeley vs UCLA - #13 by beyphy - University of California - Berkeley - College Confidential Forums;
<p>$40,000 is a lot of money. If you were talking about 40k to attend UCLA, I would highly caution you against it. You simply don’t have the money to attend Brown. You have a full-ride to one of the most respected universities in the country and the world. UCLA is in the top 1% of universities in the United States. It’s also generally regarded as being in the top 1% of universities in the world. Do you seriously think it’s a smart decision to turn down a full ride to such a fantastic university, when there are people that pay over $200,000 to attend it? The answer is pretty obvious.</p>
<p>The ‘Ivy league’ label isn’t very strong outside of the East coast. If you want to settle down in California, you won’t get any special opportunities by attending Brown. And if you go to law school, your total payments will be significantly higher than if you’d gone to UCLA.</p>
<p>UCLA is the no-brainer choice here.</p>
<p>Nice post, beyphy… The value of the Achievement Scholarship is to help those who are poverty-stricken to be able to attend UCLA at effectively no or very little cost at all. In this way, it’s seemingly like the Gates Millenium but solely for UCLA students, and it’s only for instaters. This is how much UCLA values her possible enrollment. I think, however, if add1line would value a cost of a Brown education at $40K, and even above, then she should at least consider it. But excellent points nonetheless.</p>
<p>In totally unrelated and irrelevant events:</p>
<p>I couldn’t figure why 2018dad and brownparent seemed to be begging for compliments in their friends and family gaining admission to both Cal and UCLA. I offhandedly cited a rumor that is now a couple years old that if Cal accepts someone, UCLA would reject this applicant and the other way around. It was just some silly rumor that was pretty popular and was squashed a couple years ago. For one, it would take communication between each others’ admissions departments to huddle and pore over just about every applicant, or “you take this one, and we’ll take this one.” Certainly a silly thought, and one that was as legitimate as Brown rejecting an applicant that Harvard accepted for fear of the applicant rejecting Brown and for which Brown had no chance because of Harvard’s stamp of acceptance. And it’s obvious by high-school databases that show acceptances for individual students that this rumor between Cal and UCLA had no legs at all. I’m surprised that both jumped on this and felt compelled to re-squash it. I think perhaps I’ve been a little too complimentary of Harvard recently. “Harvard has the most profound naturally intelligent students in the world,” etc. Geesh, the things people feel the need to address… </p>
<p>I would go with the full ride to UCLA, brown isn’t worth that much more money especially if you have to take out loans for it.</p>
<p>I would advocate for UCLA too, except that the study about outcomes concluded that attending a school such as Brown (“elite”) did make a difference for students who are first gen/immigrant background/lower-income and/or URM. The benefits of “prestige”’ are often meaningless except for these students, because their university’s name serves as a marker, as their sole network and because the university support ensures they succeed at their highest capability.
But the cost sounds unmanageable…
add1line: is there any way for your counselor to call the financial aid office and indicate that the health insurance tips the balance and prevents your family from considering letting you attend; could your counselor advocate for you (since apparently people at your school are rooting for you to go to Brown)?
BTW, email Admissions and 1° let them know you’d like to visit but can’t afford to (they typically have funds to fly you in. It may be too late and they may have used them up but there’s no downside to asking.) 2° explain that the health insurance costs -state the amount - added to your medical condition’s clothing requirements make it impossible for you to meet your contribution. It sounds like they really want you since outside the health insurance they offered you a pretty good package, they may be able to figure out something.
At worst, if you go and don’t attend, at least you’ll have seen another part of the country. </p>
<p>Another issue is your health : winters at Brown are very cold, much colder and longer than one day at 30°. If the cold is a problem, you need to go see a physician or someone familiar with your case and ask them whether they think it possible for you to attend college in the Northeast. If they say you can’t, well, at least you’ll have visited another part of the country for 2 days… but Brown (or any school) isn’t worth endangering your health for.</p>
<p>OP - UCLA is a fantastic school. It seems to have a lot of what you what - it’s close to home, it has a great economics department, you can get involved in internships in LA and stay near home during the summers for internships. You will also get special treatment because of your scholarship, which is also great. AS others have pointed out, UCLA is also an elite school - it’s one of the top research universities in the country; it’s well-known all over the country and the world. You won’t have a problem getting a job or getting into law school from UCLA.</p>
<p>I would honestly argue that Brown’s prestige isn’t that much elevated over UCLA’s, especially not when you take the university as a whole. Ivy League is just an athletic conference; it’s not a guarantee of quality, and there are several non-Ivy schools I’m sure some people here would rank higher than some Ivy schools. I definitely don’t think Brown is worth sacrificing the support of your family for, not when you have the excellent option of UCLA and you seem equally happy to go to UCLA.</p>
<p>Not to mention that the most you can borrow your freshman year is $5,500. If your parents won’t co-sign a loan for you, then you can’t borrow more than that (even as a legal adult). And work-study won’t really work to pay the other ~$3,000 because you will have to have at least the first semester’s worth in September.</p>
<p>I would call Brown Financial aid to see if they can fork over more money if you really want Brown.</p>
<p>UCLA for FREE is unbeatable (vs Brown for 10k/yr more)!!! </p>
<p>I think your proximity to and familiarity with UCLA has you underestimating its reputation. Converse for Brown. For the enormous peace if mind of graduating debt free I would strongly recommend UCLA. Weather, desire to ultimately live on the west coast and your family considerations are just icing on this cake. </p>
<p>If you’ll graduate with great grades from UCLA, you’ll go places where top Brown grads go as well. I don’t see the sense of picking Brown over a free-ride from UCLA unless you really, really hate UCLA or you have an unreasonable fascination with Brown. </p>
<p>Berkeley, UCLA, and Brown are your only options? You did not apply to any other “reach” or “match” schools in warm-weather states?</p>
<p>Even if you could lower your costs to attend Brown (by getting cheaper insurance, for example), I think your health issues make that a bad choice. Try to imagine sitting in an over-heated classroom for 90 minutes with three layers of socks on, then walking across campus to your next class with damp feet in 5 degree weather. Between the cold and your work-study obligations, it would be hard for you to participate fully in college life. </p>
<p>Plus, even at Brown, some of your pre-med classes won’t be all that small. A Spring 2014 Organic Chemistry course listing shows “826 of 999 Seats Available”, so apparently the enrollment is 173 students. Introductory Biochemistry shows “748 of 999 Seats Available” (so, enrollment must be 251 students). Even some of the associated “recitation” (discussion) sections seem to have more than 50 students.
<a href=“https://selfservice.brown.edu/ss/hwwkcsearch_public.P_Main”>https://selfservice.brown.edu/ss/hwwkcsearch_public.P_Main</a></p>
<p>Add in lingering family tensions and you could wind up being miserable at Brown. </p>
<p>^ I don’t think the OP has mentioned Berkeley as one of his/her choices. </p>
<p>My son goes to Brown and loves it. It is not a particularly intimidating place, as one poster mentioned, and does not reek of wealth like some schools. Nevertheless, it seems clear that UCLA would be a much better choice. </p>
<p>Rhode Island gets really cold. The cost of travel back and forth would be a LOT. Shipping belongings would be a lot. The lack of family support is an issue. If you can visit Brown during April, you could get a sense of chilly weather and see how even in April, you might not feel comfortable with the colder temperatures. </p>
<p>Congratulations on getting in to two wonderful schools. Brown, or any school in a colder climate and with greater cost, is not worth it for you.</p>
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<p>Normally I would advocate taking the loan for Brown for contacts but in your case, your health issue trumps all other requirements. Go to UCLA, be close to your family and give them peace of mind. I suspect your family would support you going to Brown if the above was not an issue.</p>
<p>UCLA. Not a fan of California or any particular school there, but 40K is a great deal for essentially the same education. Depending on the particulars of your major and the individual profs that you get, UCLA could be considerably better. Besides, the travel costs back and forth also add ‘hidden’ costs to going to Brown. You will never be able to make up for the money you spend on Brown vs UCLA. Heck, you could likely not make up the difference between UC (pick one) and Brown. If you are smart and do well, you will earn as much or more going to the UC.</p>